How to Stay Without Feeling Stuck

Laura: Hi, Renae. I’m so glad to be back here with you. Talking about the escapist. This is our third week talking about the escapist. And I know that we’ve done a lot of work to think about. When does the escapist show up and what is it trying to do for us? And so this week, I’m really excited to explore the strengths of the escapist. Once we start to understand it a little bit better and what it is doing for us and how we can, you know, maybe, um, use the escapist to our advantage. So hello, how’s how’s it going?

Renae: It’s it’s going well. Um, I’m, I’m really been thinking about this phrase that we set for this episode of, um, how you stay without feeling stuck. And I think that’s such a, that’s a, it’s, it’s, it’s pointed, right? It’s pointed because this, that’s exactly what’s pushing against me. My escapist part when I think about continuing to show up or, or commitments or all of those, those types of things. And so, um, that is a, that’s a really great place for us to start.

Laura: Yeah, absolutely. Well, let’s talk about, I mean, I think we started hinting at it last week, but, um, when we talk about this word freedom and, you know, the escapist is seeking this, how do you feel like your definition of freedom, you know, how has that shifted over this exploration of the escapist?

Renae: Well, I think what it has really reminded me is that there’s no freedom without safety.

Laura: Mhm.

Renae: That we just, we, we don’t, um. Freedom. Freedom is a relief from an experience or a set of circumstances where we’re not we’re not experiencing safety. We don’t have felt safety. And so, um, if I think about it in, in those terms, um, then I can be really curious about, you know, what I’m asking the escapist why, why, why what what are you doing? What’s going on over there? Um, I can look at what parts of it are, um, you know, a lack of safety that that I can I can adjust. And what is something that needs to be adjusted? External to me. And I think that that’s like the freedom lives in that I have there are parts of this that I can change.

Laura: Yeah, yeah, I like that a lot. Like freedom is more about autonomy almost than it is about like, actually just, I don’t know, to me, I think that that’s exactly true. And I, I think about, um, I had an idea of freedom, for example, I thought I wanted to travel around and live in a van and go wherever we wanted. And then I tried that out for two weeks and I found out that that was not what I wanted at all. And then that wasn’t freeing to me. And so I think that, you know, your first instinct of, um, what it looks like to be free is maybe not what’s actually even best for you, or what even will make you feel free.

Renae: Well, and I think that, um, if we’re, if we think of about and consider people may be coming from different levels of controlled environments.

Laura: Mhm.

Renae: Right. Some people have high control, um, homes, some don’t, some have high control communities, some don’t. Some have high control organizations, some don’t. Um, and when that, when we have high levels of control, it is normal and natural for us to have an internal and sometimes external rebellion against that. Because as human beings, our healthy human beings are healthy. Human beings are autonomous, which means it doesn’t mean that I’m independent, but it means that within the collective I move is my own being with my own thoughts and my own desires and my own needs and my own ways of doing things. And so I think sometimes when we talk about the that freedom. Freedom is when there are circumstances that were not allowed, that autonomy, right? That there’s been so much control. And I think that’s, that’s different than the way that we sometimes use freedom because the, the truth is, in a lot of situations, we actually have a lot of control. We have a lot of autonomy. And so what, what is it that we’re really pushing against when we’re like, don’t tell me what to do.

Laura: Yeah. Yeah, I think that’s so fair. Like reframing the problem, I think, is something that the escapists can be really good at actually in a negative way, but also can be really good at it in a positive way. I remember once. Like the smallest example. Um, but I remember once we, we were working on a creative project and there was this person on the team that wanted us to design a pen and we thought that was a really lame tactic to showcase a brand. But then our manager came in and she said, well, why didn’t did you think about what a cool pen could look like? You know what I mean? Like, why does it just have to be a pen with a logo slapped on it? Like there’s so much potential for a pen and, you know, like just in. She reframed her whole thinking about this one specific thing. We thought we were trapped into this one, um, tactic. But when she said it, then we kind of felt foolish because we were the creatives. We were supposed to be thinking about those that kind of potential. And really there was a lot of freedom in a pen that we then discovered. So a lot of it is what you’re talking about like this, this internal Or reframing and and the remembering of ourselves, that we are creative and have ideas and can have some freedom within whatever boundaries we’re in.

Renae: So I think maybe that’s part of what the when we’re, we’re thinking about the goal of us making peace or, or settling with our escapist. It is, it is what are those touch points that we can say, wait, no, I actually have choice and control here, or I have safety. I’ve, I’ve created, I’ve created this environment where I actually have safety. Um, I hate it when brainstorm sessions, when they’re like, no idea is bad. And you’re like, we clearly by everyone’s face, you can tell that that’s not true. You can tell from the energy in the room and how people shift in their seats that that is actually not true. There’s a ton of judgment going on. And so I think sometimes we internalize that judgment as well. Like people are going to think I’m stupid or that I’m not confident or I, I don’t, I don’t know what I’m talking about. Um, and to say to ourselves, like, it doesn’t matter. I know what I’m talking about and I’m going to do this exploration. Um, and, and I need to fail several times to get the brilliant idea. And so I don’t need to escape out of shame or out of fear, but I’m going to create this, this, like that. We were talking about last week of that practice of staying present and staying in the room and allowing myself to say it. It’s, it’s not that I’m going for perfection. It’s that I’m, I’m allowing it to continue to voice itself and create the space for it to continue to expand.

Laura: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, and that’s where it becomes a real strength that we can carry. Right. So if you are thinking, if we are starting to think about the escapist as, as having this, you know, positive role for us, what role do you think you’d want it to have instead of being what we’ve been talking about, like trying to take us away from whatever thing that we don’t want to be facing.

Renae: You know, I think that, um. For me, I would like to let it be a little bit more of the wonder and joy. Um, I think that’s the role I would like for it to have. Like we talked about in, in previous weeks, the, the, the concept of even being bored but not being, you know, I, I I’m not bored by myself ever, ever, ever, ever. I sometimes do get bored in circumstances with other things, but I never bored by myself because there’s so many things to think about and to ponder. And, um, but I would, I think that that, um, that letting it, letting it help to remind me of the, the wonder and joy and maybe even a little bit of curiosity of what would happen if this, what would happen if that, um, and, um, you know, the name of this podcast is it doesn’t have to be this way. Um, so I think it’s like that might be the, a little bit of a banner cry even for the escapist.

Laura: The escapist is a king of possibility.

Renae: Yeah. So I think that for me, I think that’s what what job I’d like it to have.

Laura: Yeah. I love that idea of wonder and joy. It makes me think of this time of year in Ohio. We have fireflies and, um, it I love every night just watching them for at least a minute because they’re so fleeting. A they’re just, they’re so cool. I mean, like the whole backyard and the front yard is just lit up with all these little lights. And to me, that’s just fascinating and amazing. And then it’s also, you only get it for this window in the summertime that feels almost like nostalgic. And, um, just like, you know, classic summer. And so that is one place where me and my escapists really enjoy being in the moment, having this, you know, tiny moment every day of loving the fireflies. And that really joyful place. I think also for me, I do appreciate the, the possibility, the reframe the way that I can always count on the escapist to look for the silver lining in everything and make up a horrible situation, feel like at least I learned something from that.

Renae: Mhm. Yeah. It’s, uh, it, it’s a really interesting, um, like that dance of the reframe versus toxic positivity. Um, I, I have, I have been guilty of, uh, when people say that’s fine, it’s fine of calling out and saying it’s not fine. It like, what are you trying to do? You’re trying to make it all better. It’s not fine. Like fine is feelings. I’m not expressing. It is not it is not okay. Yeah, and it’s okay. And then it’s okay for it not to be okay. And I think that probably is the, the, the escapist, when it’s not in this healthy spot, is really pushing against the, the fact that things are not okay and does not believe that it’s okay for it not to be okay. Um, and so because the escapist is so good at reframing and finding new ways and, and being curious often to figure out, you know, different possibilities and different ways of doing things and variations that, um, maybe encouraging it also to hold both truths at the same time and not be binary. I think that’s the challenge and, and could be the gift. Maybe, maybe, I don’t know. How does it land with you?

Laura: Yeah. Yeah. I think you’re absolutely right. Um about. Saying saying things are fine when things aren’t fine. Um, and I do think like that, like my escapist will want to be like, everything’s fine and I never want to talk about it and that I know that’s not healthy for me. Um, so yeah, being, I guess when I also think of. Being with the escapist in a situation like that where I know things aren’t fine, I will often find it. And even though I’m, I’ve learned to not just totally shut down, I will still have the escapist in a good way, saying things like, okay, now you’re learning how to be with this. Now you’re learning how to process grief. Now you’re learning how to, um, find relationships. And so it can become like the, the, the, um, the positive outlook that the escape escapists can bring, um, can help me in, in ways that aren’t a shut down, if that makes sense.

Renae: Yeah. And I think going back to what we’ve talked about before in this series is, you know, what, creating that container like what if it, what if you gave yourself ten minutes on the timer and said, I’m going to allow myself ten minutes to either everything’s unicorn roses and cupcakes and, and everything’s great. And then I’m going to come back or everything’s absolutely terrible and awful and, and all these bad things and the timer goes off and you’re like, okay, that was only part of the reality. Like, I think that it can work on both sides. And, but it’s, it’s a planned escape so that it’s not happening automatically.

Laura: Yeah, I like that too, because it allows the escapist to not feel trapped in whatever. That feeling that you’re encouraging at that time is because you’re saying it’s only you only have to do it for ten minutes, right? And then we’re done here. When you think about building a life that you don’t have to escape from, which is a big, um, a big phrase that I that helped me a lot when I was quitting drinking. Yeah. Um, what does that mean to you?

Renae: Um, the first word that came to mind is peace.

Laura: Mhm.

Renae: So, um, if, if I can cultivate in the environment where, um, I do have safety, I do have choice. I do have touch points that, that give me that structure and that foundation that then allow me to be creative. Um, as it as it comes, right? Yeah, I think that’s, that’s probably probably it for me.

Laura: Yeah. I think you hit the nail on the head with that.

Renae: Okay. I guess we’re done or no.

Laura: Right. Well here guys, you heard it here from Renae. Your action plan. To build a life that you don’t have to escape from.

Renae: Well, I think it is the. It might even be maybe a first step of of starting to build that, um, because, because I’ve spent time with it, because I’ve gone through processes where I’ve said, what is it that I want from this next season? Okay, what do I, what things need to happen in order for me to get there? Like I have a whole process for that. Um, I think maybe just collecting the evidence for yourself for a space of time. It could be five days, seven days, however long. And asking yourself, um, two questions. Um, uh, we’re making two lists, two columns in. In what circumstances or situations, environments did I feel like I needed to disappear? And in which ones did I feel like I could fully be myself?

Laura: Mhm.

Renae: And show up and start to. Just look at for number one, like look for patterns. Um, and then also be aware that you, you can show up and figuring out that, um, that showing up also sometimes means staying, right? It’s not just a flash in the pan, it’s not your diva drop in. Um, but it’s, it’s still, it’s, it’s being present and it’s being part of it. And, and just see what, just seeing what you can notice. And and that brings us to our, you know, our, our practice of pausing, right? Our practice of pausing. If those that list feels like too much. Um, it might just be that you pause and breathe.

Laura: Yeah.

Renae: Right. What’s the question that you, you gave us for that? Laura.

Laura: The question that I like, how can you stay in the room? That one?

Renae: Yeah.

Laura: Yeah. How can I stay in the room?

Renae: Stay here. You know what? What what do I need? Can I just take a breath?

Laura: Yeah.

Renae: Can I stay here for one more breath and. And let that be enough? And then then after you, um, if you need to go, then you need to go and not to judge yourself.

Laura: Yeah. I think that is another interesting point that I want to make sure that we cover is that sometimes when you are functioning, if your escapist is taking over in a really unhealthy way, my mind has totally done in the past. Then I think that once you start to bring some awareness of that, then it can feel like you need to totally shut it down and not not let it out ever. And I had like someone say to me once, like I, I had gone through a period where I like was doing a project and then I finished that project had served me and it was like this writing project. And the project had served me. And I was then moving on from it. And someone said to me, oh, you’re changing your whole identity again. And it really hurt my feelings. And it really made me question what I was doing. And I think that was part of like me saying, oh gosh, well, you know, I have this escapist mentality and maybe, maybe it’s wrong and I need to stop doing that. But what I have since come to realize is that that’s a it’s okay for me to do that. It’s okay for me to have a season and move out of it. And, and also to know that I will probably do that more frequently than other people that aren’t wired the same way as me. And that that’s okay. And like, I have this little mantra, um, on my desk that says no one needs to get it. Like, you know, I need to get it and I need to use my discernment to, to know why am I moving on from something? But no one else needs to understand that. Like, I don’t need to wait for someone else’s approval to do that. And I think that, you know, you yourself can carry that into your own judgment of, of whether you’re escapist is working in a healthy way or not.

Renae: Absolutely. Well, I, I just really appreciate, um, you know, the, the framing and reframing that you’ve given us, um, throughout, this series, it is very clear that it’s very resonant, um, with you. So, um, Laura, thank you so much for that. And for those who are, are listening and you’re welcome and invited to download the week three micro journey so that you can do this week two or three, week two, week three as well.

Laura: Also, you could do week three also in addition to one and two. And if you want to dive deeper, you know, we have our full workbook available and would love to hear feedback on how that all lands for you.

Renae: Awesome. Well, now I feel some pressure not to escape this episode, but I think we actually do have to say goodbye for today. So thank you so much, Lori.

Laura: Thank you. It’s great to be here, Renae. We’ll see everybody next time.