Fine, I’ll Do It Myself

Renae: Well, hello, Laura. Welcome back to our discussion and the parts project. And we’re going to start talking about the boss. And I just want to make it very clear I am in charge.

Laura: I’m so excited about the boss. I feel like we’re too bossy, ladies. And this is going to be a good a good exercise for us. Oh my listening.

Renae: Woo hoo! Have fun everybody. Um, here’s the deal. Is that my response when people have told me earlier in life of you’re so bossy is when why shouldn’t I be? Why shouldn’t I be the one in charge? And, um, that’s a, that’s like a real strong through line for me. So today as we start to talk about, um, a little bit of awareness of where it comes from, what is the boss look like? What’s it doing? Um, where does it maybe get us into a little bit of trouble? Um, you’re going to notice that we’re probably going to laugh a lot about this one because we, we continually come back to it in our, in our side conversations. Um, but, but Laura, welcome. And, um, you are currently a not, you are currently in a role where you are leading now, even though you’re building your, your team again. Um, and um, you are, you are the boss.

Laura: Yes. Yeah. I think for me, it has been a, one of the things about going from being my own boss where I was just the boss of myself and the boss of how I ran all my own projects because I selected all my own people when I needed extra help on those. And they were my clients to own, um, transitioning to this role where I’m working among other people who I’m like, I’m not the CEO, I’m just a manager within this larger organization. So it has been a shift for me to remember that not everyone knows what I’m thinking and my reasons for why I’m doing things, and that I need to communicate that because that’s necessary for everyone else to buy in to why they really, the bottom line is to why they should listen to me and do it the way that I think is best to do it. And then also, honestly, listening to other people’s perspectives as well for why maybe we shouldn’t do it that way. So it’s been a whole it’s been a transition, um, uh, as far as being a boss in this different way.

Renae: Yeah. And even in the things that you just talked about of the, the pause of, oh, other perspectives are important and people can’t read my mind and that this is a collaboration. I think that that’s a, a piece that comes with maturity and experience as well. Not. This is not to say that the people who are younger with less experience can’t collaborate well, and it it is a skill that is developed. It is a skill.

Laura: It definitely, for me came from an experience place where I finally realized when I. If I want people to do the things that I want them to do, and I don’t mean to be, um, not like I’m trying to order a order. People around, but if I want to bring the solutions the way that I think they should be carried out, then it’s a lot easier for me to gain consensus and get people to want to do those things that align with the way I want things done, than it is for me to just kind of like, come in like a hammer and tell people that this is the way things are. So I have come to this mature place by making the immature decisions a lot and a lot.

Renae: Well, I think it’s part of it’s we don’t necessarily have it modeled well, right. Like thinking about when you and I grew up and what the workplace was portrayed for us on in media was a, a really strong hierarchy where you did what you were told and you often did it without question. And if you did question, you’re a troublemaker. And it came a little bit from, um, the workforce in, in the fifties and sixties, growing out of people who had been in the military and then came back to a workforce and had a really strong container. And, you know, there’s been social back and forths to that. But the, that whole, you know, tyranny model or, um, you know, do what you’re, what you’re told to do has shown up in a lot of other places too, whether it’s parenting, whether it’s in education. And I think that it’s, it has to do with where have we seen models of leadership versus management? Um, that for me is like where there’s this pretty clear delineation, but I did not know that when I was in sixth grade, and I did not know that when I was in twelfth grade and when I did not know that when I was in college, I started to figure it out. Um, but the concept of a group project is the like to me, the litmus test for where, where, where your boss might show up. Um, so when I said that you got this big smile and started to chuckle as I said, group project. Um, tell me what’s going on there.

Laura: Well, I’m sure you’ve had a similar experience.

Laura: As I have where no one’s doing the work, and so you just do it all and then that’s the group project you. Bye bye, Renae. Bye. Laura.

Renae: One hundred billion percent. One hundred billion percent. And it’s it’s not even it. You know, I think in certain parts of my life, it was like, no one’s getting this right. Or it it was I’m worried. I don’t want my kids to get one grade all together. Um, and, or, or, you know, there’s all sorts of different reasons that it might be like that. And, and to be honest, back when we were in school, we did not have cell phones. We did not have internet, we did not have instant messaging. So the way that these things got done was either at school, or you had to, like, set up a time to meet at the library or someplace else. And it was a whole thing. And you were limited on how you could collaborate. It’s not like.

Laura: You needed a ride.

Renae: one hundred percent. Also one hundred percent. So, so maybe that’s part of it too, is like, there is the pressure because our resources were tied to someone else, um, who would get really frustrated in if we weren’t efficient and didn’t get things done. Um, and then it’s, it’s tied to our grade. And then we had those, what was it called? Junior achievement and all those like, like leadership development, things like you need to take charge and, and create, you know, make a way and show your leadership skills. And it was highly, highly valued. Um, and in none of that, in none of that were, was collaboration, at least for me, it did not show up at all. Um, and creating containers for people to succeed at all.

Laura: Yeah. I think also that they, I feel like the theory was that if they gave people more group projects, then we would learn how to work as a group. But no one said this is how to collaborate or, you know, like you need to assign roles or you need to evaluate what every person’s skill is and what they can bring to the table. Like no one’s telling us those kind of things. They’re just like, here’s the assignment, get it done. And so when you know someone that has a kind of a strong boss inside hears that, we’re like, yeah, well, we get it done. Here it is.

Renae: Well, and if you’re, if you’re a person who can see patterns, if you have certain skills, like, um, I had my, my father was an early adopter of technology. And so we did have computers early on and we, we were able to create pretty looking reports before other people were able to really do that because of the tech that I had at home. Right? So it was like a little bit of this wow factor. And, and I understand structure and I see patterns. And so I could see really quickly, well, this is what there’s the matrices of what they’re asking for. And here’s what we do. So I don’t see why we’re not just doing this. And they’d be like, okay, well, great. Why don’t you do it right? Wonderful. I’d like an A thank you.

Laura: Yes.

Laura: You know, I have a funny side story about a group project. My son, at one point, I want to say he was maybe an eighth or ninth grade and he was in, in a group with someone like one or two other people his own age. And I guess he did some work. And I guess some of the other kids did some work and then someone else was not me. Someone else’s parents saw it and didn’t think it was good. And so they did. They redid all of the work.

Laura: Oh my God.

Renae: Oh my God.

Laura: Not to participate.

Laura: In in that and just let it happen. That was maybe a bad decision, but I don’t think I had the mental capacity right then to take on another parent.

Renae: Well, I think that brings us right to the central question for this episode is, what am I taking? Where and what am I taking responsibility for that might not actually belong to me?

Laura: Yeah.

Renae: Right. And, and, and we’re asking that question with gentleness and without judgment, just the awareness of, oh, hey, like, you don’t need to hold that or it’s not helpful for you to hold that or it’s not a, an accurate representation. I did have one teacher who could tell that I was doing the work for the group projects, and he did give me a different grade than he gave the rest of the people. I just wanted to point that out because some teachers are paying attention. But, um, but when we, when we think about that and that concept of control, right when we start to take over that help that boss part of ourselves, um, how, how do you notice like what, where do you start to feel that that weight of taking on that responsibility?

Laura: I think it can.

Laura: Show up for me in situations where, you know, maybe I really want to do a good job or I want something to be really good. And, and I get, I have to watch my personal investment in stuff. Because if I get too attached to it, it kind of becomes an unhealthy attachment. And then I want to be the one doing everything. And for me, then that can really lead to one of the reasons I’ve had to become so aware of is because it can lead to burnout. Like when you’re doing everything yourself, you really don’t have that kind of time, you know? And so you’re just like dipping into the time that you need to be recharging. And, and then you’re also, I think one thing that I’ve really noticed is that I’m cheating out other people for, you know, whatever their contribution could be, even if it’s a growth opportunity for them to try something that they haven’t done before. You’re not doing them any favors when you just do it yourself.

Laura: Mhm.

Renae: Yeah. I that’s, that’s so true. And I think that I have been on that side of it before too, where, um, that there is a, a peace sometimes when I’m not the in charge person and I notice that there’s no room for anyone else except for the in-charge person. and it doesn’t feel good. So that’s been the a learning, a place of learning for me of, of recognizing, oh yeah, this is, this isn’t sustainable if we want to stay in, you know, healthy collaborative relationship. Um, what, when do you think that that role of helping? I mean, I know that we talked about the helper as one of the parts, right? That there’s a, an identity piece to it of I need to help in order to know what, what my role is or what my value is. And we’ve seen that across other parts we’ve talked about as well. But I think it’s the shaded just a little bit differently for the boss. I feel like that there’s a little, um, a little bit more survival that’s attached to it. And I don’t know if it comes from like having like not, not enjoying chaos. or or not feeling, not feeling, um, like if someone’s and I’ve said this over and over and over again to people, if there is a leadership vacuum and it sits for too long, you can be guaranteed, I’m either going to step away or I’m going to step into it like I’m a step away from the whole situation, or I’m going to step into it because I don’t feel safe.

Laura: Yeah, I find that very frustrating as well. Um, when you’re, when you’re waiting for someone to do something, it’s really hard to just let that sit and not, I mean, it’s hard for me to I don’t know about anyone listening, but it’s hard for me to not either just be like, okay, guys, here’s what we need to do or be like, I see you later. We keep keep doing nothing, and I’ll.

Laura: Call.

Laura: Me when something happens.

Renae: Yeah, it is definitely a, um, for me that has been a been part of the exploratory piece of um, is, is this a growing edge that I can sit into? Like I’ve come to the end of my, my capacity right now and is just growing or is in fact this non-action actually, um, harming something for me. Um, and I, it’s, it’s a case by case basis. Like sometimes I really just do have to wait. Um, and sometimes I have to articulate, I believe I have answers. And also I’m so tired of being the person who steps in with answers. So I’m sitting over here is not me ignoring the situation, but also I don’t think I need to be the in-charge person right now.

Laura: Yeah, it’s.

Laura: Really funny that you bring this up, because I am realizing now that I had a situation like this earlier this week where I’m, I’m working on a project with several people who are like, I don’t want to say above me, but they have they have more power in the in the hierarchy of the organization than I do. Which is fine. Um, but they’re not. And so there’s like all of this decisions not happening or there’s no action items being talked about and people are just talking around and around things. And as you’re, as you were describing that situation, I was thinking to myself, wow, I just totally checked out in that, in that meeting and just thought, this is not worth my time. And I just kind of started like doing other things during that meeting. And what you’re making me think about here is should I have, I mean, you know, on paper, of course, I should have stayed engaged in the meeting and what was happening. But like, you know, from a, from a broader perspective, like, is would it serve me better to stay engaged in that because that’s a growth opportunity for me to be able to sit with that in action and allow people that need to talk it out, to talk it out.

Renae: Well, and I, you know, not to go into how do we create healthy workplaces? That’s like a whole other container. But that is part of like when I’m running meetings, when I am in the in charge person for, for these things. Um, that’s part of how we set up the healthy agreement of it needs to be okay for us to say, wait, hold on, pause or, hey, I’m noticing this in myself or I’m getting frustrated. I need to take a break for a moment. You know, like all of those things, we, we want to create the environment that makes it okay. And I think that that is an opportunity of, um, if you recognize that you do either default or often in this in charge role or persona or situation or circumstance that you’re like, you’re often doing it because you’re trying to create safety for yourself. And part of that responsibility is creating that safety for other people too.

Laura: Right?

Laura: Absolutely.

Renae: Because if not, then it’s just, it’s, it’s exhausting. Um, because to be a, to be a good boss, um, is exhausting.

Laura: Yeah.

Laura: It takes a lot of mental capacity. Right? Especially when, I mean, when of course, as always, as someone is wired differently than you, has different ones of these parts, um, surfacing and you have to, you must learn the sensitivity to allow for that, even though you just really want to get some stuff done.

Laura: Yep.

Renae: Yep. And so when we when we default to the fixer or the, the taking over, um, how often does that come with resentment for you?

Laura: When we, when I’m asked to be the person that gets things done when no one else could do them, is that the question?

Renae: Or if it’s just a default, I mean, does it, does it bring up resentment for you?

Laura: Well, I think.

Laura: What’s interesting is I don’t get that a lot anymore because I have better boundaries around what I can and can’t do and what I am and am not motivated to do. Um, however, I, there was a point in my, um, life where a lot of times people would come to me and ask me to do things because they knew I would get things done and there wasn’t going to be a lot of, you know, indecision. And when there’s a deadline, Like you need somebody that can move. And so because I could do that, I was often kind of the default person for that. And so at that point, I wasn’t comfortable saying, no, I can’t handle anything else. Um, and so I would take it and then I got just got really burned out. And I do think I was a little bit resentful of it, but also I knew that I was, I almost was, um, wearing it as a badge of honor as like, you know, I’m the person that can get things done. And it was almost like feeding my ego, you know, and I, and I now with, um, you know, we were referencing maturity earlier, like now with maturity, like I’m, I’m not here for that now. You know what I mean? Like, I don’t need to prove that I can do everything. And, and so at this point, it’s okay for me to be like, yeah, um, I’d love to help you, but I just can’t, you know, or take these other things off my plate. You know, like you, you, we, we need to prioritize. So you let me know what, what’s priority? Um, whereas before, you know, ten, fifteen years ago, I would have said, yes, I can do that too.

Renae: Yeah. Yeah. And it’s, there’s a whole like social value, you know, role in the community. Um, and I think that maybe for, for those of us for whom this part can loom large, um, you know, it just occurred to me that that maybe part of it too is we might say yes and default to that in charge role for the little things that we don’t actually like. So that when it comes to the big things, when it could be really disastrous, we’ve already established ourselves in that role. And so there’s like even safety in that because it becomes that default, we can say, oh, I’ve done, I’ve taken care of everybody all this time. So you really just need to listen to me.

Laura: Yeah, right. Like you’re building up that social credibility. Yeah. That’s interesting. And, you know, I mean, that also reminds me of a, we, we talk about this a lot, but this is another place where sometimes you just don’t realize you can say no. Like you, there’s just an expectation and you, because it’s always been there. You never think to yourself, well, probably, maybe I don’t have to do that, you know, and you just default to saying yes all the time.

Renae: And you can default to saying yes without ever being asked. Uh, so, and what I mean by that is, is when you, you step in, I keep thinking of that guy you remember on Saturday Night Live, there was like the tech guy, the IT guy that was like, scoot over. Right? Like, sorry, that was a really loud noise. Um, but it was he was just like, oh my God. And I will admit that there have been plenty of times in my life that I’ve been like, oh my God, I’ll just scoot over and let me just handle this is taking so freaking long. I just can’t even. Oh, no, no, no. And, um, and so it has, it has been, um, part of that, that growth pattern. And for me to say, well, wait a minute, maybe this isn’t, maybe this isn’t mine or maybe not, it’s not all mine. Or maybe I’m trying so hard. I feel like other parts of my life are so out of control. I’m really trying to control this particular outcome. And it’s, it’s, it’s not the true reality. And so I’m, I’m kind of like not being kind to myself mentally either.

Laura: Yeah.

Laura: Yeah. I mean, are those the times when you feel, when you have felt frustration that you, you know, are the one taking over again?

Renae: Yeah, yeah, I’ve, I. It’s been very, very interesting for me. And certainly as we’ve talked about, you know, being employed versus being the, the founder CEO of your own in charge person. Um, you know what I have, what I have noticed is, um, that for me, trust is the big issue. I don’t, I don’t trust most people who are decision makers in groups and in organizations because we get to a certain point where I realize they have not considered and thought about me as much as I’ve considered and thought about them, that when I’m making decisions about how to set up safe containers and about how to, um, make, make space for people and create healthy environments that that has not been extended to me. And, and so I have eventually curated a life for myself where I don’t go into those situations anymore. Um, because it, it hurt. It actually hurts me. So, so, so, so bad.

Laura: Now, I think that’s an interesting point when you think about this boss part, because tell me if this is true for you. If I am reporting to some or I’m, I have a boss in my life, let’s say that I do trust and then I do really respect. I don’t have any problem at all doing exactly what they say. Like, because I guess, you know, we were talking about that vacuum of, of action. I like when there isn’t one and I trust the person in charge, then that’s great. I don’t feel like I need to be in charge. Like it’s not a control issue necessarily.

Renae: Well, and yet it is. Right. So it’s like if someone’s not in control, then I’m going to need to be in control. Like I need to know someone is in control. I need to know.

Laura: The person that’s in.

Laura: Control in those situations.

Laura: Right?

Renae: Yeah. I can think of there was one particular person who I worked with and, um, I worked with him for two years and we remained very good friends for the next fifteen years. We’ve unfortunately, our life has not allowed us to, um, stay in each other’s proximity just because of distance and all those types of things. Um, but we started off as I was reporting to him in this position and, um, you know, in my, in my interview with him, um, he asked really good poignant questions that let me know he was incredibly thoughtful and he was really introspective and he was really curious. And he, was he was paying attention like he was paying attention. And this there was just so much intention in his attention. And what I realized in within like two months is he would always have my back. Like I could I, no matter what it was that I was doing, um, he would have my back. He was never once going to throw me under the bus. Um, and so what that did is create all of this freedom that allowed me to be able to try all sorts of things. And, and that then trickled into my leadership because I was responsible for over one hundred and twenty five volunteers, um, in, in this organization and then a bunch of staff people. And, and I could do all of those things because I could trust that there was one hundred percent a safety net. Um, and so, um, I, I really only screwed up one time, two years, one time. And it was like a Christmas Eve, uh, toward the end of the time that we were both working there and I and I screwed something up. Um, but that I think it was because the trust went both ways too, right? Like we, like, I would make sure that I did the things to support him and then he would support me. And at the end of the day, he would take responsibility and never throw me under the bus. And I think that that’s the part where I learned so much from that, that I’ve taken into other roles that I’ve had.

Laura: Yeah, yeah.

Renae: And so yeah, go ahead. So I think that that when we’re talking about the, um, the awareness piece of this is to notice when it’s cropping up, like noticing, um, what is it that is activating this part of ourselves that’s making us feel like we gotta be like, oh, I’m just going to take over, right? There’s definitely that like, uh, you know, that’s in it. Um, how does that, how does that, um, come up for us physically? You know, what thoughts are we having? What feelings are we having? Um, and, and then asking ourselves, is this really helpful? Is this really supportive or am I taking over?

Laura: Yeah, absolutely. Because sometimes it can serve us right when, when things need to be done. But yeah, this week is just about that awareness. So we have a micro journey about that. If you are interested in exploring your boss part and, um, we would invite you to download that for free.

Renae: And then of course, we’ve got our twenty one day, um, companion workbook that gives you some room to build out your boss profile, uh, figure out what does that boss look like, and then begin to sort what actually is yours to carry and, and start to imagine what would life be if I wasn’t carrying things that I didn’t need to? Oh, that sounds kind of like freedom, I don’t know.

Laura: There’s a lightness to that. So explore a lightness to it.

Renae: Yes, absolutely. Well, thank you so much, Laura. I look forward to when we get to gather for our next session together. As always, thank you for bringing your heart and story.

Laura: Alright. Thank you for having me. See you next time.