When Doing Becomes Proving: Meeting Your Overachiever Part

Laura: It’s interesting because I. if you say, like, do you identify with the just kind of like the perfectionist, like, do you identify with this I would be like, no, not at all. But then I was reading through this and I was like, oh, I can see that. Like how like, you know, Achieving being this. Badge of honor.

Renae: I think the the overachiever part of us, There that, Proving piece. Um, and I think that where this gets really tricky for us and, um, you know, current American culture is the, the thing we’ve talked about before is that production model, right? That we’re we’re noticing that this was part of the perfectionist and part of the good helper. It’s about a it’s a doing it’s a we’re a we’re showing that improving to people that we have value and worth through this overachieving. Um, and so I think that. Go ahead.

Laura: Well, I was going to say, like to add to that point, I feel like, you know, just like all of this, it when you like, I tell my kids, like, if you if you just show up to work and just do like one percent more than they’re asking you to, like, you’re going to shine and be golden. And I think that’s coming from a real and true place because you’re there to do a job. But then like how fast? That could go too far into overachievement.

Renae: Right? Well, and what’s and what is I you know, we we, um, we also add to this I was having a conversation with a group of people, one of whom was an HR person, talking about reviews, staff reviews, and the I remember, um, when I was even working in a place That, you know, five was the highest score you could have. And I was part of the committee that redid reviews for the category of employee that I was in, which was a support role. And so it’s supposed to be a little more narrative. And it was it, you know, your your, um, score was not supposed to be too tied to your merit raises, but it, you know, it still was. And, um, I was I was in a role in assisting, um, a a person who had it was a, the head of a department and managing all of these pieces of it and, and literally, um, like, the guy was, was pretty brilliant and just said, here’s all the stuff. And I, I ran All of it, and he just showed up for the things he needed to show up for. And so when it came time for reviews, he put fives across the board on everything. And it got kicked back to him and said, you can’t possibly rate all fives. There has to be room for improvement. At which point he’s like, no, for the for the job classification. That is only exceeding expectation. But but they just so they just discounted it. They said there’s no way it can be. And the way that it worked is that, that the people that you were supporting, they weren’t your managers. You had a separate manager and then they wrote the final review. Um, and so it became this whole thing of, it doesn’t matter what I do really. Right. I can do the best job. And still there’s going to be some metric somewhere where it’s not. It’s not enough. Um. And it really. Is. So I’m having this conversation recently with, with HR folks and, and said I you know that the when they say, well threes is just you’re doing your job and fours are like it’s exceptional and you know above and then five is it’s just stellar. And I said you know the the problem is is that there are there are people who are going to be stellar, but they’re probably in a wrong job classification. Um, but we create this idea that you have to produce at a certain level in order to, to shine, to stand out to whatever. But but the truth is it it’s held kind of like a carrot and we don’t get. Um. We don’t get paid for that level of work. Which is why, like, things start to feel a little more. Why am I working so hard at this?

Laura: Yeah. Yeah, it’s interesting too, because that system, it doesn’t account for somebody that’s in the, in the, in the perfect job for them and is loving and thriving and maybe doesn’t I mean what is room for growth. Does that mean you’re going to get a promotion. You know like maybe somebody doesn’t want a promotion. Maybe they don’t need a promotion. Um, I work with so many creatives, designers especially, that were doing such a great job. And then, you know, they’re doing so amazing. Obviously we’re going to promote them. Well, then they had to, like, do less design work and more management work, both of which they hated. And so, you know, it was like they did such a good job that they got promoted into something that they hated. So it was like really working against it. And, you know, I wonder how often, you know, we should maybe rethink about what is the reward for achievement.

Renae: Well, and wouldn’t it what would it be like if, if we all could set our own reward for achieving things? Like what would it look like? So even, like in a, in a, um, family setting. Right. It, it it changes that idea of I have to I have to do these things in order to be acceptable in order to be, in some cases, safe. Um, you know, seen, um, I have to act or do things in a certain way. And I think that’s the the part where this then we start masking right where it’s, it’s a we’re we’re performing.

Laura: Yeah. Which is forcing.

Renae: Right, right.

Laura: Which is going to burn you out.

Renae: Mhm. Absolutely. It’s gonna burn you out. And the, the amount of like the stressor is um, I think that’s the thing is that the, it’s when you’re um forced to um do produce do make be not be but like to participate out of alignment with who you really are right. That’s where the fractures show up. There’s too much stress on on the on the system to try to make it function in a way that it’s not meant to.

Laura: Yeah. I was just looking into, um, my human design again and I because I have this community that I started. And when I think about, you know, like when I’m, quote, supposed to be doing, you know, like building community and showing up for people like that does not sound like something I want to do. Which I know that sounds horrible, but it just does not align with my energy, honestly. And so it was feeling really draining for me to like, try to think up ways to get people to engage and to, um, you know, just like doing what I saw other people doing in other groups to get engagement and a it did not feel good to me, and b it was not working. And um, so I went back to my human design chart and I was just exploring it. And, um, what I really realized is like, that’s just not my design. And my design instead is to focus on the system and articulating a system and giving people a system to follow. And when I shifted my focus from trying to, you know, quote, build community to creating the system and clarifying the system and like putting all these elements like the yoga and the philosophy and the human design, like, together in a certain way that would help people just, like, embody their true alignment. Then I got into my own alignment, you know, and so, like, I get so much more excited about showing up there and creating content and like, whereas before I had zero ideas for any content to create, and now I have so many that I have to prioritize and stop myself from trying to do everything at once. So, you know, like what you’re saying is really resonant to me because I, I feel that like, you know, like when you’re trying to do something that isn’t you because it feels like you should and that it just it doesn’t feel good and it doesn’t work.

Renae: Right. Right.

Renae: And where and where? What’s the driver for the shoulds, I think, is the question for when we’re trying to increase our awareness around this. Yeah. What what where did the where did first of all, where did that narrative come from and what is it trying to do?

Laura: Yeah, I think another aspect of it too is. Just not it’s easy to look at other people succeeding or, you know, or doing a thing that you want to do. You like other people that you admire even and be like, well, I, I need to show up in that way because that’s, that’s a, that’s a way that works. And it does work. It works for them. And then then you try to do it and it doesn’t work for you. And I think that that’s, um, I mean, I guess that is the should, right. It should be working for me because it’s working for that person. But sometimes when I think of like the shoulds, I think of like society says that, you know, the lady stays home, you know what I mean? And that sometimes doesn’t feel as I don’t feel as, quote, programmed by that as I do things coming from my own head being like, um, well, I, I should show up like that person because I want to be successful like that person. And I think what has been helpful like for me is to is is to really start to understand that. That that person has a completely different process and energy than me. And, you know, like I always think about like clothes, like they’re wearing size four pants and I wear size fourteen pants. So even if I put on their pants, I’m not going to feel comfortable or look good. You know, like, I need to wear my own pants. And that sometimes requires more work and critical thought than you might want to put in at this time. Or like, like you want to get to success, quote, success, whatever that means to you faster. And so it feels easier just to put on the size four pants than it does to try on a bunch of your own pants.

Renae: Um, that’s I, I’m, I’m laughing because of course I visualize things when people say things. And so I’m just thinking about, like trying to get your leg in the pants.

Renae: Right. And how uncomfortable.

Renae: so I want to ask this question about the. If you didn’t and you did name the the concept of success. So, um, what is the script or the the rule that says you need to do the thing to be successful. What is the so is the rule you have to succeed. What’s what is the underlying rule?

Laura: I think you’re real. I think this is a perfect question because it starts what I’m talking about starts even before you’re trying to imitate someone else’s process and starts by asking yourself, do you need to imitate someone else’s success? Like, is that thing what you really want? Like, that is the thing that has been coming up for me so often recently where I just keep hearing people’s stories. Um, I think the first one I ever read happened a long time ago, but, um, the person that started Pixar, I can’t remember exactly what his name is, but he had this dream for such a long time to to do this full length animated, you know, movie in the Pixar style, and that was all he ever thought about. He was so future focused that then once he made it, he was just like, who am I now? Like, what do I do now? You know, and I keep lately I keep seeing stories like that come up. You know, I thought I wanted this thing and I hustled for it and I worked for it, and then I got it, and then I was just like, oh, well, this isn’t the thing. Now I’m stuck in this situation. I think it’s been really interesting for me to think about, you know, like what? What is it that I really want? Like, what do I really define as success? And I was just telling my husband the other day because we were talking about, um, just traveling and we had been putting off traveling because just, you know, we had this dog at home, and Dan’s dad wasn’t in a position where we could just, you know, leave. But now he’s in a facility where he’s well taken care of and our poor dog has passed away. And so now we’re like, okay, like things are opening up. And maybe if we want to, you know, do this car camping trip that we’ve been talking about for at least two years, we could do it. And in the course of this discussion, you know, he was like, it’s not something I have to do. It’s just something I want to do. And I was like, yeah, you know, when I think about what I want out of my life and how would my life look different if I had everything I wanted? Like, I don’t think it would look any different than it it is right now, you know, I mean, maybe we would have enough money in the bank to never, ever have to worry about money again. That would be great. But, you know, like if you really get down to what’s important, I was like, this is it. And so that moved me from thinking about travel as a thing that would make me happy once we could start traveling to a thing that’s like, yeah, that will be a fun adventure, you know. So like this. Our our business mentor that we both enjoy like talks about that escape energy versus expand energy. Like I think I used to think of travel as like an escape from this current situation. And now it feels more like an expansion of this good thing that I already have. So to answer your question, I think it’s important for people to think critically about what is success and how is that going to be different? How are you? How do you think that’s going to change your current situation?

Renae: Right. And what and when you when you look at that, it might change what your actions are. Um, because you’re if if you’re approaching it with a, with the abundance framework. Right. With the I have what I actually have what I need and I’m not in a survival state where I don’t have what I need. And I want to be very clear. There are times that we do not have what we need. And so everything is approached from that survival lens. I have lived that for the last eighteen months, where I’ve had to really check myself about what my drivers are. Is this coming from a survival, or is this coming from a, a belief that I’m going to have the things that I need or that I have what I need in this moment? Um, and so when we, when we look at what is what is the, the driver, um, is it if it’s survival, it’s going to be from a that fear space that is protective, that is, um competitive. That is there’s only so much good to go around. There’s only so many. Um, there’s only so much market. I mean, I think that just really think about that, that concept of, you know, you and I both in the growing into this entrepreneurial, um, space. I know that business models teach you that you have to dominate the market. I hate that word. I just don’t even I just makes me feel gross to even say it. Um, I don’t want to dominate the market. I want to co-create success for people. And they get to define what that means. Um, and, and we what we usually decide on when we’re working together is there’s, there are barriers or gaps between where, where they want to be showing up is their full and authentic self. And so whether it’s a rehaul of how they’re approaching life individually or collectively or an organization to say there’s a culture shift that needs to happen so that people can show up safely and be who they’re supposed to be, who they’re meant to be, not supposed to, not a should, but like who they were designed to be. Um, but they get to ultimately determine what that success looks like. And so that approach that I have, it takes time. It is not a quick fix. It is not a checklist. It is not a just follow this pattern and this is what you’re going to get this in twenty. Like we only have this twenty one day Overachiever Journey Companion workbook. It does not mean that in twenty one days that you’re going to be completely transformed. It means you’re invited into a twenty one day experiment to see and notice what shifts are happening. Just it is to get to know who you are. And that is not satisfactory to a lot of people. They want that immediate quick fix. And so to reference one of our previous episodes, uh, my, my model is does not feel like for everybody, like there are people that are just like, oh like I want the I want the thing now I, I need I’m, I, I need activity and action and all those things now. And there’s a disconnect sometimes between who they are meant to be and the persona that they have to put on in order to try to force that type of, of, uh, role in the marketplace.

Laura: Yeah. I’m glad you said that, because I think that a lot of times we think about like, we’re going to undergo a transformation and it’s like such a snap, you know, moment that happens and which is what makes a great story. But the reality is it’s so, so, so layered. And in this, you know, our twenty one day experiment, for example, is, is you peeling back a layer to get direction to peel back the next layer. And it’s this iterative process that every time you move through it is going to tell you something new about yourself and what’s really best and aligned for you. And I think also in that process, part of the learning, especially for me, you know, we talked about this, um, ad nauseam because it’s a lesson that I keep learning. But like this, this idea that right now is good enough, that right now is is great. And you’re building in a sense of appreciation for this process, this iterative process, instead of waiting until you get to the next layer and then discovering that that’s not deep enough either.

Renae: Right.

Renae: Well and and the when we’re looking to at um and there are moments that we have breakthroughs so. Absolutely. And those breakthroughs are the result of processes that came before. So they feel like this big moment because we can’t see the tiny little movements that built up to that, that epiphany or that that realization or that moment where things gelled or came together.

Laura: Yeah, I think you’re right. I mean, like to go back to the layers like you’ve, you’ve you’ve broken through enough of that, sanded down enough of the outer skin that you were at a thin layer, and now you finally saw the layer underneath it. And you’re discounting how much I mean, that is a moment, but you really had to do some sanding work to get down there.

Renae: Absolutely. And I, I think about the, um, you know, some people have, um, and there’s, there’s zero value judgment when I make this statement. Some people have a very rich inner life where they’re contemplative and processing and thinking deeply about things often. Um, I am one of those people. And it. When I realized that not everybody does that, it was this moment of. Oh, so people are are are not everybody is thinking through patterns and conversations and and the exploring the why behind all the different things. And how is this connected to the system and why does this happen. And like the, the the so for other people sometimes it looks like I will say, oh, well, it’s this, this is actually the problem or this is the, the, you know, the flash pointer, the the we’re up and I will be way upstream. And they’re like, how did you get there? And it seems so like a flash judgment, not realizing that this is because there’s been a lot of work to say, well, let’s let’s like examine this and let’s examine this and explore this. And, and so it’s, it’s built on a bunch of work that was done that nobody saw. Um, and so it looks like a, like a flash judgment. It looks like a where’d that come from? And I think that when, um, when people see and I think, I think probably everyone has a version of that, right where there’s some change that’s happened that other people can’t see all of the history for it. And so it might look sporadic or it might look like what? Where’d that come from? Or. That’s amazing. And I think maybe it’s the same. I’m just contemplating the Olympics right now. Right. Like there are these all these athletes thoughts that the February twenty twenty six at the time of this recording, and there’s all these athletes in the Winter Olympics who are doing these amazing things, and people are clapping and cheering and they’re getting awards and all of that. And, um, there was so much training. There is no not anyone who’s showing up there that was like, oh, I think I’ll be in the Olympics with my natural talent. And but it’s the result of slow and tedious and painful tearing and rebuilding of muscles and stamina and mental fortitude to. And failure and failure and failure and failure. And I was I was presenting a something about healthy habits yesterday for for a group of people and is a neurodivergent person. I, I don’t believe that I form habits, which is true. Um, I don’t I can’t, I wish I could oh my gosh, I would be, I’d be at so many things done. Um, but I can’t um, but at the end of the the talk, a gal came up and said, you know, when we watched that ice skater fall at the Olympics and just fail and the capacity for the for that athlete to go through the interviews and say, yep, it you know, I, I screwed up. This is what happened. And and people are like, wow. Like, look at that resilience that was practiced. Like, you have to you have to fail a lot of times to be that comfortable with failing.

Laura: Yeah. Yeah. Right. You like on such a huge stage? We. I was just thinking about, um, my, when my kids were growing up, before they had their piano recitals, the piano teacher would have everybody before and after your lesson, you had to, you know, perform for the person that was coming next and or the person that had just come before you, you know, wherever you were and you know, like, hi, my name is Laura Reese, and I’m going to be playing, you know, the Bach whatever. And you sit down and play and then the other person plays. And so then once you got to the recital, then you were able to stand up in front of a big group of people and say, hi, my name is Laura Reese, and I’m playing this. And I think that, like, that’s a microcosm of what you’re talking about. You know, that you, you have to be taking action and, and, um, letting that painful stuff happen. If you, if you ever want to move onto a bigger stage with it. Right. Because you don’t want that the first time that that happens, you wouldn’t want it to be at the Olympics, you know.

Renae: Right. I think I how devastating.

Laura: That would be.

Renae: Like you never recover from.

Laura: That if that was your first failure.

Renae: And I think that we I think that when we, um, I mean we’re so we’re Gen X, we definitely were not bubble wrapped as children. Um, and I do think that there are some certain pockets of people who experience a little bit of that bubble wrap life who struggle to accept that they may fail, and that in and in that it’s okay. Not only that, it’s desired, it’s actually desired that you fail because you want to be able to know where your actual limits are and where your growth edges are, and what you are capable of doing in that moment. And then the more that you get to know yourself, it’s this piece of learning. Is this really meant for me to do? Right. And if it’s not meant for me to do and I do it anyway, this is where I’m going to start to get out of alignment.

Laura: Yeah, yeah. And you have to know that about yourself, right, by having taken those actions. One of my mentors recently challenged me to write down a list of projects that I had started versus projects that I had finished. And, um, I didn’t really want to do it because I am notorious for starting things and not finishing them, and I or that was that was the story I had been telling myself. And, um, so when I wrote when I actually did force myself to make that list, what I saw, though, was a lot of stuff that there were far fewer projects that I just started and never finished than there were iterations of the same project that ended in a failure, but restarted in another form. And it also so that made me feel like, okay, look like I’m learning. I’m learning. And each one of these is a progression of the previous one. And then I think the other thing that it brought to light for me was that, you know, someone that just kind of how you’re saying, like people that don’t understand how your brain works are interpreting what you’re saying in a completely different way than what’s actually happening. I think that, you know, I’ve had a few times where people that do not operate like me would say, oh, you’re changing your mind again, or you’re doing another thing again. Them assuming that I’m like flaky or flighty and I’m sure it does appear like that to them. But what I was able to identify on that sheet was this like, I mean, it seems kind of erratic, but I see the through line in all of this and I see where it has gotten me to right now, this place and it all is valuable, even though some of it was crazy and some of it I can look back on and be like, of course that wasn’t the right thing for me to try, but I didn’t feel that until I did it and felt it, you know?

Renae: Right.

Renae: And and we often will come from, from like systems where we’re rewarded for, um, acting a certain way that is outside of how we were meant to function. Now, it’s not to say that we can’t grow and change. There are things I am very good at that I do not enjoy doing. There are things I’m very good at that I do not enjoy doing.

Laura: Mhm.

Renae: And I will. I at a certain point I realized oh I’m falling. Like why do I keep getting asked to do it. Well because I’m good at it, I’m quick, I’m efficient. Then people are like well it won’t be hard for her not realizing. It is hard for me to to to be rewarded, to be known in as in that role when it is not who I am.

Renae: Mhm.

Renae: It’s not who I, it’s, it’s something I can do but it’s not who I am. I think for me there’s a, That’s like my litmus test. Um, just because I’m good at it doesn’t mean that this is the right thing for me to do.

Laura: Mhm. Yeah. It’s interesting that you say that. Um, because I certainly have I certainly have felt like that where I get rewarded for this job that I don’t want to do, and I already knew that. But then when you said, like you don’t like getting recognized for it or it feels, what did you say that it feels uncomfortable for you to be recognized for that? Um, I that’s so interesting because, yeah, people will say to me, oh, this is so great. You’re so good at this. And I, I always am, just like, thanks for saying that. You know what I mean? Like, I appreciate that they are grateful for my work. And also I’m just like you. You should see what I could really do. Like, that’s kind of like my.

Renae: The.

Laura: Thought pattern in the back of my head.

Renae: I’m like, you.

Laura: Think this shit is good? You should see what I’m really passionate about. something, you know. So that is funny. I guess that is a really good test for somebody. Like, if someone’s recognizing you for a thing and you don’t really feel that excited about it, what is that telling you?

Renae: Right. And it’s the so I think the, the challenge of um, is, is this something that I do or something that I am.

Laura: Mhm.

Renae: Right. And so when we’re, when we’re talking about um the over part of overachiever. Is different than high achiever. I think that that’s an important piece too. I remember when I was uh, my, my freshly out of high school and I was working in an organization with my best friend’s mother, and I said something about overachiever, and she said, oh, no, no, you never want to be an overachiever. That implies that it is more than it needs to be. High achiever is you. You’d want to be a high achiever, but not an overachiever. And it really did stick with me. This concept of over is is saying that it’s more than it needs to be.

Laura: Yeah. It’s interesting. I really like that because in that context, it feels like overachiever has kind of like a desperate energy to it, you know, kind of repellent. But High Achiever is just like a personal standard that you set for yourself, right? That you’re going to be a high achiever. Yeah. That’s really fascinating.

Renae: And and I think there’s the energy of high achievement also kind of I think brings with it that it’s not just about the doing, but that there’s a different resonance. Right? Like that. There’s a different, um, the fulfillment.

Laura: Yeah.

Renae: Right. Like when we think overdrive. Right. It is. It’s it’s like this force. It’s this push.

Laura: Mhm.

Renae: Right. So and and again it’s, I don’t think that you and I are saying that um, achieving things is inherently an issue or even, even that there’s something wrong with overachiever. It’s to notice why and where is this overachiever energy showing up? And how do I how do I decode it in in my in my heart, mind, body and soul? Where am I feeling it? Um, how do I know at the end of of a session if I’ve been in that energy or not? And there are times we have to be, but it’s not sustainable, I don’t think, for us to hang out in that space.

Laura: Yeah. And I think even more nuanced than that. Like if you are someone that like, let’s just call you an achiever. That is your superpower, right? And your weakness. So like when you’re serving your high achiever self, then that is you in your highest power. And when you are serving this overachieving side where maybe you’re doing it because of you feel like you should, or to impress somebody else or any kind of other outside influence. That’s when it starts to become, as you say, unsustainable. And from this place of more of like a fight or flight place. But I think that that probably can be difficult for you to discern, you know, when you’re in the middle of it because you get you get rewarded externally rewarded for both states.

Renae: Right? Right. And so then it becomes where where it’s probably, you know, and it’s actually probably I don’t want to go too far. Uh, because we’ll discuss this in the next, the next episode of uh, where, where do we want the reward to come from? Um, so we’ll, we can examine the next time. But I think this is a pretty good setup for, um, exploring the awareness piece of our overachiever for, um, week one. And Laura, what are ways that people can continue on this journey?

Laura: if you want to continue, you can download this micro journey, um, for free. And if you want to go a little bit deeper with it, then you can purchase the full twenty one day work work book journey for just five dollars right now.

Renae: Excellent. Well, um, as always, Laura, thank you so much for, um, adding all of your amazing insight and, and work and especially bringing in the, the this week, I think the human design element was like really helpful for me. Um, for framing this as we start to explore the overachiever part. So thank you so much.

Laura: Thank you.