The Messy Middle Still Counts: Momentum, Patience, and the Overachiever

Renae: How are things?

Laura: Things are fine. Um, yeah, I mean, I, um, I am doing a good job of for me. I am doing a good job of staying present and embracing messy middle ness. Okay. And then I also sometimes like this morning I was. So I got all these ideas for my YouTube channel and I got really excited and I wrote these, all these scripts, like maybe five or six of them. And then, and then I had to wait and not film it last week because Dan was getting, he helps me. And so he had a pipe show this past weekend. So he was getting ready for the pipe show and I had to help him with his pipe show stuff, which is fine, but like I was just trying to be like, okay, it’s fine, I can wait, I can wait because, you know, like, I want to get it rolling now that I have ideas and I’m excited about it. And I also just like, want to get things out in the world to see what is working and what isn’t. And because like, I’ve been taking so much action in my group and even though I haven’t got any new members and I haven’t really got that much participation, it’s helping me figure out what I want to say. So it’s been really, really valuable for me. And so I kind of want the same thing for this YouTube channel. And so anyway, so we did film this morning And it just took like ten years to get everything set up. And, um, I try not to be impatient, but I totally was being impatient. And then I was, I did like the first video I did. I did like two reads and then and I have this teleprompter app, which works really great. Um, but like sometimes it was moving too fast.

Laura: And, um, so then like halfway through.

Laura: Then Dan was like, well, why don’t you just try it one more time? And, and so I was like, okay. And so I did. And then like, oh, no, maybe it was like the second, I don’t know, it was one of the read thrus and I was ready to make this the last read. And I felt like I had enough and I wanted to move on and see because he had to leave at eleven. And I mean, I have other work I need to do too. And so anyway, halfway through it, he was like, like he was I, I was like, okay, could you back that up a little bit? Because I wanted to reread this part. And he was like, yeah, he’s like, and I think we should do another one after this. And I just like deflated. And I was like, I don’t know why we need to do another one. And he was just like, okay, okay, okay. So you know, it’s okay. And then like, I finished that one. And then he was like, your energy totally changed after I told you that we that we should rewrite it or that we should rerecord it. But then it was funny because we were just laughing. And then, um, I did like, I have like a landing page video that I wanted to record. And because I recorded it like not being patient, I recorded it at like eight o’clock one, like Saturday night. So I look really tired on my eyes are really bloodshot and I just like did a screen recording. And when I asked Dan to to take a look at it and review it, he was like, I mean, it’s like the content is good. It’s like, but you just look really exhausted. I was like, okay, that’s fair. So anyways, I really wanted to get it refilmed. So I filmed that and that went really great. And so then I was like, okay, now we can do another read of the other one. And it was like the best one yet. So, but um, I can still see where I need to have, you know, and give myself some patience on some let things progress and not be too. And. So, so.

Renae: So here’s what I’m hearing in your story, but I’m hearing in your story is the, um. The, the, a little bit of, um, I’m going to use the word fear and it may not quite be the right word, but I think it is, um, the fear of losing momentum because you’ve felt some of that after, after feeling so, um, um. Stymied, you know, like stuck, um, in this process of figuring out, um, how and, and what ways and what, what container, what medium and how you’re going to share your knowledge and spark with the world. And you, you start to feel some momentum. Um, and you wanted to, to take that and, and go, um, because you’re like, okay, I’ve got, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve made all of this stuff. I, I’ve, I’ve moved outside of my manifesting Idea and actually started to generate.

Laura: Mhm.

Renae: Right. And that’s not your that’s not your favorite spot because that’s not part of your design, right?

Laura: Um, the, I, it’s just the, the anticipate, although the, I would say that making the content is great and it’s fun. I just feel like I’ve pent, I had this pent up like I’m waiting for, I’m waiting, I’m waiting. And now’s the day that I’m ready to take momentum. And then he was just like, you need to stop. And I was just like, no, you know what I mean? Like, I like, I, it was just like all this like pent up energy, like yesterday’s the day. And then it was just like, I think that’s what it was.

Renae: So.

Laura: Totally right. Which is like just this fear of if I don’t get it out there, then it’s not going to work well.

Renae: And, and will it dissipate? Will you lose it? Like what, what will, what will happen like for me, It is one hundred percent. I have like notebooks upon notebooks of stuff that I want to do that that has been like bubbled up and I’m like, oh yeah, totally want to do this. This is, this is great. And I get really excited about it and I want to do it. And then either like circumstances or my energy, it’s not a thing of like, when I was growing up, it was, I was told it was like a lack of follow through. And that’s not the truth. That’s not the full truth. The full truth is that there’s well, first of all, there’s just not enough time in my in my lifespan to do all the things that I want to do that sucks. I hate that reality. I feel. Um, and it’s, it is. Like I will forget. Like, I know that there’s like these moments of like cool genius that come up because it’s like, oh, my brain, which is the only brain that’s thinking about it in this particular way, in this particular moment with these experiences has found this really cool thing. And because I’m a human, I want to share it. And if I don’t do it, then I might forget it.

Laura: Mhm.

Renae: And that’s a real thing for me.

Laura: Mhm. Mhm. Yeah. I have like, I think part of mine is like, I have really been like that in the past where I had a million ideas and I wrote them all down. And I’m the same way. Like I have so much stuff in notebooks and random papers and, um, but it never has really gelled for me the way they all felt a lot more random than they do now. And now that I feel like I have a direction and I have really clear next steps. I am finding myself very impatient when I don’t get to take them as fast as I want to be. Taking them, I think is kind of like a big thing. Um, yeah, it’s interesting. My design is like one of the big things that I, that I found when I have been studying my design more recently is that my, I don’t know, stop me if I’ve already told you this, but like my design is, and I have told you this part before where I’m just like, I don’t really feel building community like that doesn’t excite me at all. Like helping people. Not that I don’t want to help people and I do enjoy helping individual people, but when I just like, think about like, I don’t have a mission to be like, I’m going to help, you know, a thousand people like that does not excite me. And I know it sounds awful, but it doesn’t. But my like, as I was reading it into my design, it was like, if you try to build community, it’s going to seem needy and desperate because that’s not what you’re designed to do. You are designed to think about systems and communicate systems and articulate systems that people can follow. And that is when that is when your genius is going to shine through. So like your focus needs to be on like, how, how can I better articulate the system? How can I work out the system? And when I read that, I was just like, oh my God, that is so exciting to me. And then if I think about somebody being able to use the system and being like, oh my gosh, I tried this thing that Laura said and it worked so great. Like that makes me feel excited, you know what I mean? Like, there’s a, it’s such a subtle difference between being like, I want to help this person versus like, I want to show them a system that’s going to help them, but that makes me feel much more excited. And so I think that’s part of like what has kind of unlocked some momentum for me. And like direction is like, all I have to do is the thing that I already really love to do, which is recognizing patterns and articulating systems. Um, so that is very exciting. And like, I mean, that goes back to like what I was just saying about like just working out those workshops in the group, even though like only one or two people have come, I don’t know who’s watched the replays, but it’s just like it has helped me think it has helped me just like flesh out what this framework is. And every time I iterate on it, it gets clearer. So that to me is really exciting.

Renae: Yeah. And I think the, um. I think it’s, it really does point to that. The thing that, you know, both of us, I think have learned by this stage of our lives, um, you know, as these middle aged ladies that, um, that trying to function like we, we can all function in outside of our gifting, our design, how we were meant to be. Um, and we have to, as humans, there are all sorts of circumstances in which we have to do that, right? Um, and so it’s not to say that we should avoid it, right? It’s not that we run from it or that we say, oh, that’s not how I’m designed. It’s the, it’s the sustainability piece of it. I think that’s what’s important is that we can’t sustain functioning outside of how we’re meant to function.

Laura: Yeah. Totally.

Renae: Right. And that’s, I think that’s just across the board for, for everybody. that there is a harm that comes to us. there’s a depletion of our resources of our compassion, of everything when we have to do that and we don’t have recovery time between it. And that’s where we start to experience like the effects of trauma because it is out of alignment. And if we even think about it, like in machine terms, if, like, if, if our, if our car is out of alignment, we can still drive, but the wear and tear on the engine and on the different parts of the car and on the, how the tires, um, lose their, their tread as they’re going because it’s the wrong part of the tire is touching the ground and being worn away. I think as humans it’s the same way there’s going to be after effects of it. And so the taking time to realize, oh, this is like this functioning like this long term or repeatedly, um, is, is actually not my full health. And it’s, it’s, I can get things done, but it comes at a deeper cost.

Laura: Yeah. Yeah, I think you’re exactly right. I mean, that’s where you start to get like, you’re functioning from this energy that is not going to last long term, just like the car. I mean, you’re going to drive, but eventually the something’s going to be wrong with your tires. And they’re they’re not going to last as long. And I think that’s the same thing. Like you’re, you’re creating stuff from this energy that you’re forcing and it runs out and that’s when you burn out.

Renae: Yeah. But in thinking, I’m thinking about the connection to even having this conversation about the overachiever and this idea of performance and, and, and the image of I am, I am, I’m competent. I’ve got this. I’m, I can meet these needs. Um, the, the chameleon part of, of overachieving is that you bury your, you bury your true self with your, when you’re helping other people, when you’re meeting a need and, and you do end up functioning outside of who you are meant to be. And you have to build a little bit of a facade for that.

Laura: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And then I wonder, like when you’re so used to, I mean, I think I can see this pattern in myself. Like when you don’t quite know exactly what is the best way to work for you. What you know is that you want to be your best. Do your best. You know, achieve, achieve, achieve. Like you’re not taking the time. Like that’s the measurement, not the process of how you’re getting there or the, or the activities that you’re doing to achieve. And I think that the only measuring when you’re using just the measuring stick of, I got an achievement, then you, you don’t know which, which of those processes that you took to get the achievement is giving you energy and which is draining you and burning you out. Um, because you don’t know to look for that, right? So I think that’s a really interesting thing that you bring up is like, how do you then, um, pause to be like, like, there’s so much activity. What are the activity is really worth me doing? And what is best for me and what isn’t best for me.

Renae: Yeah. And it does take the, um, it takes time to, uh, reflect. I was, I was taking a group of people through a training this week. Um, and it’s, it’s like eight hours of training and I’m standing and I’m talking a lot for eight hours. Um, and I let them know early on we’re going to do a lot of reflection because I can, I can tell you stuff. I can even share my stories. I can share concepts the way that I share concepts. But ultimately you’re, you are a whole person and you are not me. And you can’t, um, sustainably make decisions about how you’re going to apply the things we’re talking about by trying to model it after me. It requires you figuring out what this means for you and that that is not how I’m. I mean, I have not been in school, you know, in elementary or, um, middle school or high school for a very long time. But it was not my experience that we were taught to stop and reflect, well, how would I apply this in my context?

Laura: No, no. Absolutely not. They just gave you these, um, they gave you these achievement standards and then you have to work in their system to achieve them. And I feel like that’s probably why it works well for some people and not for others, because it aligns with some people the way they’re supposed to work and not with other people the way they’re supposed to work.

Renae: And I think that’s part of the, um, Like the, the crux of it is, um, when I’m even on even in that training on Monday and I’m talking about the systems and I’m talking about system change and, um, why, why we can look historically and see how we got where we got to as humans and why this information requires like it’s, it’s, it’s slow and it takes a long time because we’re talking about systems. Um, we don’t have quick fixes and the, the, the, the, it’s the sustainability piece of it, of can I keep showing up and, and pushing against, you know, unhealthy historical patterns, an unhealthy system patterns and saying there’s actually a way to do this that’s respecting that people are all different, that that the systems are made up of people who are all different, and that we look at how things were designed, how systems were designed, and whose voice has been the loudest in designing those. Um, and if it’s all homogenous, it has not made room for the, the reality of how amazingly different and unique we are. Yeah. At the same time that we’re so dang interconnected.

Laura: Yeah. Yeah. It’s interesting too, when you think about because I’ve been thinking about this a lot, like, um, even when people have your best interests in mind, like I set up a system and it works really well for me. And so I want to share that system with every person because I want it to work really well for them too, without realizing that that’s not the system that’s going to work well for everybody else, you know. And so you and then everyone else is like, oh, well, it works for her and she wants to help me. And then they you try to wedge yourself into that and then it doesn’t work. And then you, you feel bad because there’s something wrong with you that you can’t, you know, this proven system that worked for this other person and it’s not working for you. I think that we almost never take the time to be like, is this is, is the process not right for me?

Renae: Right? And, and how do we develop that? Um, I will say that I, I do think that our generation did get a lot more critical thinking training, um, than, than perhaps other, other, uh, times in, in recent history. Um, so that we could, we, we question things differently. Um, And we’re very suspect of. But where did that come from? Right. But I don’t know. We’re very you know, there’s this, this undercurrent of like anti-establishment, um, which is, which is part of like, I’m like, it’s great. And, and also like, you know, everyone, we are the age where we’re supposed to become the establishment, which means we are part of the change. So let’s just go ahead and start like doing that already.

Laura: As in all, there’s a balance, right? There’s a balance to be struck.

Renae: But the, but the, the piece of, of reflecting and saying, you know, what are the, the parts of this, how, you know, where does this resonate with me and what is my healthy response to it? What part of it can I integrate? And so it’s, I think spending a lot of time reflecting on drivers like, what is driving this for me? What is, um, what, what when we talk about even achievement, it is what’s the, the goal here? And have I put in objectives to meet that goal in a way that is honoring who I really am? And, and also whatever I’m trying to do, you know, I know we talked about the, the good helper that sometimes we. I, I have to say this a lot to people is, did that person ask you for help? And it’s like, so mean, sometimes people are so like, what do you mean? I’m like, yeah, like, um, did they ask you for help? Because if they didn’t ask you for help, then. You’re imposing. You’re not helping.

Laura: Totally. One of the. My human design is projector. And so our like, our strategy is to wait for the invitation, which means that we can give people a lot of guidance, but they need to ask for it and they need to want it and they need to recognize that we can give it. And so if we go around giving advice to people, then they don’t want it and they feel really turned off by it. And then we get really bitter because no one’s listening to us. So it’s kind of like you’re saying, like, you have to wait until someone recognizes that you, that they need your help or that they want your help before you just go slapping it on them.

Renae: And that’s, that’s hard. When we look at the, um, you know, we’re, we’re taught to be leaders, but we’re not taught. I mean, and just because we’re taught. Actually, we’re taught to be managers. I’m just going to be really honest. We’re taught to be managers. We’re taught to manage resources. We may not be taught to be leaders. Leaders are of a whole different set of skills than managers do. So we’re, we’re really. But the idea the the the the, the, the person on stage, the person up front, the person who’s, who’s directing what’s going on is seen as this really desired role. And the but we’re not we’re not taught well how to how to do group projects. We’re not taught well how to collaborate. And we’re not taught well how to lead. And that’s why I had to correct myself. Um, is that the, we’re, we’re taught to, um, really focus on those metrics, on those achievements, on those things that we can say, oh, well, here is this outcome, or here is this output that I can point to as I have completed this thing or done this thing, and it becomes so much about the doing that we forget about. There’s a whole being piece of it that is equally important. And I think some of this is like the we need to spend a lot more time in the being to correct some of what we’ve been this this push of the doing.

Laura: Yeah. And I think it goes back to what you’re saying is to make time for reflection. I mean, I used to teach this, um, course and one of the like, I like, there was like foundational truths and one of them was that you can trust yourself, but only when you listen to yourself. So like you, if you’re just like ignoring burnout, if you’re ignoring exhaustion, whatever signs your mind or your body is giving you that, this isn’t quite the right thing for you, then maybe you can’t trust yourself. And then, you know, you kind of start to learn that maybe, you know, I don’t know what I’m talking about, but I do think that you always know what’s best for you, but you do have to sit down and listen to what you are saying deep inside.

Renae: Mhm. Right. And, and to and to test things and say, um. To test things and ask yourself, where is that? Like where, what voice am I hearing that’s the loudest? And where is that coming from? Um, because we, we. It, I, I don’t. I don’t know that we’re encouraged to. Listen to ourselves in, in in. I was just thinking about like the production world, right in the it’s if, if I think that people who have liked to be in charge do not want to hear from the people that they’re supposed to be in charge of, well, what if we did it this way or. I don’t think that’s the right thing, or I don’t think I could do that. Like none of those things help you to produce.

Laura: Yeah.

Renae: And ultimately make money unless you have set your system up for it. And so like even the concept of if some. It’s okay for us to go slower. It’s okay for us to maybe not have as much like those. That’s completely countercultural.

Laura: Yeah, yeah. Well, I also think that that’s another measuring stick, right? That people are saying you need a thing and or you need to have whatever it is. Like that’s an achievement measuring stick when what, you know, like, and I’ve been through this a lot lately myself. Like what, what do I really want? Like, I want to be able to sit down and have a leisurely coffee with my husband in the morning. I want that more than I want a huge salary, to be frank. But I didn’t know that for a long time. You know what I mean? Because just as you’re saying, like, we’re so steeped in this idea that that you, you know, you go to, you get a degree, you go to work, you get promoted, you, you know, reach the top level that you can get. I mean, I think especially our generation has that. I think that these upcoming generations are starting to clue into the fact that that’s not like totally where it’s at. But, you know, I think that once you do slow down to your point and listen to yourself to be like, do I want to be working all the time to have money in the bank? Or do would I rather have less money in the bank that still meets all my needs, but have more time to enjoy with the people that I love enjoying time with? You know, and that’s another, I mean, that was a, that was a big work of self-reflection. Even though, as I’m stating it right now, it seems so obvious, but I never took the time to understand that for a long time.

Renae: Yeah. And I, and I do think that this is, um, we can speak specifically even to American culture for this, because I’ve been to other places and that was what clued me into like, not everybody lives this way. That was like my big awakening. And in, in Italy in nineteen ninety five of wait a minute. Do you know that people like, actually stop working and hang out with their friends and that they pause to replenish during the day? Did you know that this is a thing? And I did not know this was a thing, but until I witnessed it, until I lived in the culture and said, man, I’m a lot happier there, a lot happier. The food is better because we’re we’re spending time, right? I never saw a microwave the entire time I was there. Um, and it was okay. And you took time. Like things took time and you were okay with it. And you walked places and you were okay with it. And you. You waited. You waited for the bus. You know, you just you waited and you had conversations with people. And, um, I, it kind of reminds me too of like when I, when I went to Sundance and, and twenty eleven, um, I was so it was such a cool thing. I got to do it for part of my master’s program. Um, and you wouldn’t necessarily think that a master in Divinity meant you get to go to Sundance for a week, but in fact, that was, there was a course and it was really, really awesome. And the films I saw, I still, I still remember a good deal of them, but that was not the most important thing that happened. The most important thing that happened is when you’re in line outside in the freezing cold, because it’s cold and snowy. Um, you you get in line and there’s no holding spaces. You’re next to whoever you’re next to. And when you go into the room, you don’t get to choose your seat. You file in in the same order that you were standing in line. So you’re waiting for an hour or two outside in the cold with someone, and then you sit with them for an hour, hour and a half or, you know, hour and a half, two hours and watch a film. You, you’ve entered into a relationship with somebody by the time you’re watching a film and it no longer becomes an individual experience, it’s now a group experience. You’re now experience. You’re like going through that with somebody and you can’t, there’s no, you know, there’s no FastPass, there’s no hold my hold my place in line type of situation. Yeah, you’re there. And I think that that. you know, we, we try to fast pass, we try to, to, you know, get in the shortest line and get in and out and get done with things. And we miss that the, the richness comes in some of the waiting.

Laura: Mhm.

Renae: That makes the actual what we’re trying to get to really have a lot more meaning.

Laura: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think to, you know, I always feel like waiting is a gift because you always like, I don’t have enough time. I don’t, I don’t have time to meditate. I don’t have time to do breathwork. Like when you’re forced to wait. That’s just like such a great time to do that stuff to take some deep breaths to, you know, you have to wait in the doctor’s office. Now you get to read a book, you know, you get to wait in the grocery store line. Now you get to do your breathing. Like I, I think that my life changed for the better when I started viewing, anytime I had to wait as like a gift to me. It was a gift of time to do some of those slower activities. And I love what you’re saying. Like that was a gift of you. Um, connecting with other people.

Renae: Yeah, absolutely. I think, um, that spending time with yourself, spending time with others, spending time listening to yourself, you know, developing the, the, um, the muscles of, um, testing. Whose voice is this? Um, what is the, what is the driver here? Um, what, what outcome am I hoping for? Whose need is it meeting? Right. These are all these, these, these testing, um, pieces. I’m, I’m just, I’m just checking to make sure that I’m in alignment. And I think that’s a big, important part of the, the process of, um, being able to function without, um, wearing ourselves down, without wearing out, without heading into burnout and even compassion fatigue.

Laura: Yeah. I also like, I think a lot of the, the questions that you’re, that you’re posing to people. I also would want to remind us all that, um, one of the amazing things about us is that we’re, we’re highly complex, you know, like we’re not going to get one answer from this one question and be like, oh, awesome. I now have it figured out. Like, I think it’s fun to problem solve. And when you can apply it to better your life, that’s even more fun, right? So allow yourself this idea that you’re complex person to your great benefit, but it’s also going to make it a little bit more, it’s going to take more time and be a continual process for you to really learn how to listen to yourself. And when you get it figured out in one area of your life, you might realize that you’re not doing it in another area of your life. And that’s great. That means that you are starting to hear.

Renae: Yeah, I think that’s so that’s so wise, right? It’s not a there’s not a checklist. It’s not a one and done. It’s, um, you can have breakthroughs that, that help you to move forward in your, in increasing your understanding. And just like yoga, you, you and I both know you can have a breakthrough on a pose that just helps you to understand, oh, I’ve come to the edge in a different part of my body. I’m coming to a new level of understanding of where I am right now and that we can’t, we can’t force it. There is no quick fix. And these are all terrible things for, uh, the generation where microwaves were introduced. Um, because I think that there’s, I mean, there’s this piece of it where, um, it, I think we’re straddling this, this reality between writing letters to our friends and now instant messaging. I think there, you know, like I, I remember having to wait for my friend to write me back. I have been a great letter writer. I love sending snail mail. I know I don’t get letters back as much anymore. Um, which is fine. It’s fine. Um, and I think the paper was precious. It took time, but you had to. You couldn’t hit a backspace. You had to, you know, you didn’t want a page full of, of things that were scribbled out. There was, there was a thought to it, and you had to remember strings of conversation back and forth of what did I say? What did they say? And carrying the thread. And so I think even that that practice is so different than some of our, you know, our instant gratification, our cup of noodles, our pop tarts, all these, these things that that taught us. Oh, no, I can have things instantly. And at what benefit?

Laura: Yeah, yeah. Then it becomes, you know, a metaphor for. Okay, well, I should be able to understand myself so immediately too, right? Like I should be able to life hack my, my way into understanding myself. And it’s really misleading because it’s that’s not how it’s going to work.

Renae: It’s all a process.

Laura: Mhm.

Renae: Well, thank you for talking with me today, Laura, about the messy middle.

Laura: My pleasure.

Renae: Oh. So good. It’s so good. Thank you.

Laura: You’re so welcome. Thanks for having me.