Your Worth Isn’t Earned: Boundaries, Backlash, and Letting the Overachiever Rest

Renae: Um, I’m in a weird mental health space, but I’m okay.

Laura: Um, I’m sorry to hear that.

Renae: Yeah. Thank you. Um, yeah, I’ve had like three big presentations and three big speaking engagements in the last ten days.

Laura: How’d it go?

Renae: Great. Great.

Laura: Awesome.

Renae: I mean, and I and I, it’s seldom like I can remember very distinctly the times in the US five hundred times that I have done in-person trainings and presentations. I can tell you the ones that didn’t go well. I’m fully aware. So that’s it’s, it’s usually it’s you. They usually go well and they’re going, they’re going great in. Um, because it’s, it’s the stuff that I want, you know, want to talk about. And it’s the stuff I care about talking about.

Laura: It’s right.

Renae: Right. So, um, and I’m getting, I’m getting really good feedback from people, which I appreciate and I’m fully aware too, that I mean, we’re talking about nineteen hours of standing in front of people over the three days.

Laura: There’s a lot of hours sitting in front of people. Yep.

Renae: Um, and, and like being really aware of like, I’m taking care of this one hundred and fifty people. I’m, I’m, I’m attuning to them. I’m checking in and they’re giving me the nonverbal and verbal feedback that what I have to say is valuable and important. And it’s helping them to, to think about Humaning. And then I had an interaction last night that was so the opposite of that. And it was so painful for me. And I’m trying to unpack a little bit why.

Laura: Um.

Renae: And I, and I. Um. It was this conversation that started, you know, was started about. You know, scripture and, um, became politically charged pretty quick. Because we it’s, it’s kind of like, I think with everything else that has a, um, that we have a surface level understanding of. It’s very fragile. Right. And so the moment that it’s challenged that fragility is like, well, I don’t want to look stupid or I don’t want to have that challenge or I don’t want to think that deeply. Um, and so people get really aggressive and violently protecting that unless they’re in a place that they’re open. And maybe that wasn’t the place where people were open. I was the one saying, hey, maybe this isn’t the time. Hey, so maybe this isn’t the time. And, and then someone said, well, you know, the, the Pharisees and, you know, they ended up in hell. And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, like, hey, we don’t know. We’re not God like that. Let’s just like, chill out and, and consider that that was a correction that was given in a certain time in context. And we don’t know what happened to the rest of their story. We just have that one glimpse. And it was like, well, he said, woe to you. And I’m like, I’m, I’ve really bad news for you. We’re all the Pharisees in the story like this. This is the problem is that we want to continually say it’s those other people over there, and yet we are the ones who are continually trying to rely on our own version of law versus, you know, and so, so, and then, and then physically, somebody like stepped in front of me to like, cut me out of the conversation. I don’t even, I don’t know how aware they were that they did it. But I turned to my husband and I touched his foot because he does not like conflict at all. And he’s always sitting to the side. And I said, you know what? it is time for me to step out of the conversation. And someone was said, What they said was so mean it was just, it was just mean. It was just like really mean the tone and the words were very mean. And I came back and I’m like, excuse me, I’m exiting the conversation because I’m frustrated and I, I, it’s not going to be helpful for me as I’m trying to interject here And the stark difference between. Having this experience. of people who are saying, oh, yeah, we read like we’re listening, we resonate. We’re, we’re, and I’m challenging those people in those nineteen hours. Like I’m challenging a lot of core beliefs and I do it lovingly and caringly and that’s kind of how I carry myself. I try to carry myself.

Laura: Mhm.

Renae: And to have it be the. You don’t know what you’re talking about. I’m like, I’ve studied this for twenty years, like, and I don’t shut people down. I say, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on. You know, um, and someone literally said to me in that conversation, you think that those people could get to heaven? I was like, yes. And they’re like, well, you’re showing more compassion than Jesus. And I’m like, probably not. But it was the, the shock to my system of one being dismissed and then being dismissed mainly. And then this realization of not, not actually being seen.

Laura: Yeah.

Renae: Not being seen. And so I’ve been really wrestling like I talked through with my husband. it just felt like, so it was so hurtful and so mean. And I realized there isn’t even an avenue for repair because if I said, hey, this was really hurtful.

Laura: Mhm.

Renae: It would be dismissed.

Laura: Mhm.

Renae: And I’m, I’m like, really kind of like wrestling. I’m wrestling with this. I’m wrestling because I said, well, my options are to either blow things up by saying, this is some bullshit and f you, which is not kind. So maybe that’s not a great one And um, at which point my husband said, you know, the, the person who said, that’s not going to like, they’re never going to apologize. And I said. or I could just avoid the situation, like not be in places, or I could mask and mask. Um, and I said, I’m not going to ask because that’s lying. And he’s like, no, it’s a no for me. I would have to make a choice to do it. And I’m not going to lie. Yeah, I guess I just have to avoid, which I don’t like either. It’s also a form of lying. It’s just not my personality. So it just I feel really unsettled. And so I was like really trying to unpack everything that was going on in this breakdown of communication with people I consider friends and why it was so hurtful during this time.

Laura: Yeah.

Renae: And I was like looking for patterns because I think that’s part of like how we do the thing, right? Is we look for patterns. Um, and I was realizing, oh, it’s kind of like actually lines up with this overachiever thing because there’s, um. When when we get into this. I have to be right. I have to be confident. I have to have everything look. Okay. That’s when we can’t be challenged to think differently. We can’t be challenged to be open because we’re trying to, like, curate a little bit how we’re seen. Um, as somebody who has the answers is who knows the way. And for some, when someone else who shows up, who actually has some answers and knows the way, but it’s not a facade, it can probably feel a little bit threatening.

Laura: Mhm.

Renae: Well, we’re, we’re stepping into like the integration piece of the, um, um, parts project for overachiever. And it says, uh, the theme for week three is I can be effective without self erasing.

Laura: Um.

Renae: And so like for me, it’s what I recognize too is that, um, you know, people, people make an assumption when I am presenting that I’m performing. And I think that’s the difference is I’m just, I’m showing up as me with a lot of energy. But it’s just me. Or they’ll say, I bet you’re really exhausted. That was one. That was this weekend. I know you’re really exhausted after that three hour presentation. And I was like, no, no. Like my body hurts because my knee like my knee hurts because my knee is bad. And I was standing, but like, no, because it’s not, um, I’m not having to dig deep and be. I don’t know how to explain it when I, except to say when I, when you’re doing, when you’re in your flow, doing what you’re supposed to be doing, it has a, it costs energy, but it doesn’t cost the same thing as if you’re trying to function outside of your role. And also, no, like I, I’m really just showing up with my, like, my full self is that big.

Laura: Mhm.

Renae: And I think that’s the problem. I think that, um. The, I think the, the, like my whole crux of the work I do is creating containers, helping people. Well, I creating my own containers and then helping people create containers where they’re at, where people can show up as their full, authentic selves and that nobody’s too much and that nobody’s unacceptable for being passionate. Now, people have kindness is really important. And if there’s if you’re full and authentic self, I will still say no one is authentically a jerk. It’s only people who are in their downstairs brain who end up being jerks, but um, or having jerk like behaviors or tendencies. But, um. There’s not a, it’s not an, it’s not an act. I, I did for sure. I did for sure earlier in my life. One hundred percent. And that’s how I know the difference because I, I was a performance major.

Laura: Mhm.

Renae: I, I did study opera, I did take preaching classes. I was in speech and debate. I did theater for many, many, many years. Um, I’ve led worship. I mean, I’ve been on stage for many, many, many years. This is completely different.

Laura: Mhm.

Renae: It’s just me actually being myself.

Laura: Mhm.

Renae: And so that, that idea of, um. The feedback I get from people is nice because it lets me know that I’m, I’m effective and also I don’t need it. Because it’s not, um. I need it if it’s, if I’ve done something wrong, but I don’t need to have the, your, you know, the other part of it because it’s not a performance. Does that make sense?

Laura: Oh, it totally makes sense to me. Yeah. I mean, like, it feels it’s work that feels so good that it doesn’t. I mean, it’s kind of like when you have a really nice workout and then, you know, you’re tired, but you, you know, you did something good for your body. You feel good about it. Like that’s what I’m getting from you is that you’re like, I came and I did this and like, yeah, it was work, but the fun kind of work. Right?

Renae: Right.

Laura: Like, like sometimes you work and you hate doing and sometimes you do work that you love doing and it’s still work, but it’s just more fun and more satisfying.

Renae: So the, so the cost to your system to put things to the side, to do that thing repeatedly for a space of time is worth it. Because the satisfaction of being in that flow, being in that state of being aligned, you know, like functioning how you are meant to function is so good that to, you know, to stand for that long and not go to the bathroom as often and, you know, like all those things. It’s worth it.

Laura: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, totally. Mhm.

Renae: And so in thinking about the, um, the piece of the, the overachiever that, that says, you know, I need to, I need to prove myself or I need approval or the, and I have to be. Centered. Like I think sometimes maybe it’s like the, it’s hard for me to feel like I’m relegated to that. Versus, oh, this is she’s just doing what she’s supposed to do. I want to be seen as me, not as. Someone’s imposed version of me.

Laura: Mhm. And it’s not a thing that you feel like you can control.

Renae: No. Not necessarily. Um, not not on a, um, not on a one to one and not in control in the way that people think of control. Mhm. The only way I can control. You know, uh, quotation marks, the only way I can change that is by the work that I do. In helping people to experiment with creating margin and capacity for themselves and other people to show up and making it okay. Right. So I it’s the work I, the, in the, any influence I have on it is upstream. But I tried my whole childhood and most of my adulthood to be seen, heard, and valued by people in my family system to no avail. So, no, I can’t control it.

Laura: So is that why it’s still smarts when you perceive that people aren’t. Even though you are modeling the behavior of showing up as your full and complete self in a comfortable way.

Renae: Yep. I mean, if you if you were to come down to it, I think that it was the um. I definitely felt a betrayal. Like I felt like I’m not safe.

Laura: Mhm.

Renae: I’m no longer safe.

Laura: Mhm.

Renae: And I, I, I actually, I mean, like, I’ve been wrestling with it, like for the last however many hours. And I still sit with, like, I, I do not feel safe. I do not feel safe. And the thing about.

Laura: General feeling or a feeling that talk more about that like, so is it just like your body is, is instinctually feeling like, I do not feel safe and your rational mind is like, okay, I’m safe as long as I’m not.

Renae: Talking. But my.

Laura: Rational or.

Renae: No, my rational mind is exactly right, though my rational mind says it is not safe for me to show up because that felt so painful and I don’t want to feel that again.

Laura: Mhm. Mhm. Mhm.

Renae: So it’s and so the, the, the difference between, you know, safety locks on doors, um, you know, those types of things. Um, uh, and felt safety is a person’s brain and body is reading patterns and based on what they’ve experienced and the harm that they have received in life. The when they’ve been hurt, their brain and body will protect them by saying, you’re not safe and they really aren’t like, and there’s no, um, I think that’s the, like the, the neuroscience part that’s really interesting in this is there’s no difference in the neuro excitatory neurotransmitter release and the cortisol release when there is like actual physical harm coming toward you and the feeling of not being safe, it’s the same, it’s the same toxic stress load.

Laura: Mhm.

Renae: It doesn’t it doesn’t matter whether someone else can see that it’s safe or not. Your brain and body is going to have the same reaction. And it’s a reaction, not a response. And so, you know, in talking with my husband, I was like, okay, what’s my responsibility in this? Like, what can I do? And so we talked through the compassion points. We talked through the, the understanding and still came to the. And I don’t feel safe. I, I, I don’t feel like I, I felt. Had felt for a long time. It was safe for me. To be who I am. And, and that it was okay for us to disagree. But we were going to be kind and respectful. So I think it’s the. It’s not the disagreement that’s a problem. You can completely disagree with me. I don’t have a problem with that. It’s the mean dismissiveness that hurt really bad.

Laura: Mhm. And so does it feel like it undid all the work that you’ve done to.

Renae: Um. No, it didn’t part of the work is when you identify that people or places aren’t safe. Then you put up a boundary and the boundary again is not that we say you can’t cross this line, it’s I will do this or I won’t do this. And so when it’s the part of the work is putting in boundaries when you don’t feel safe.

Laura: Mhm.

Renae: And so that’s, it’s, it doesn’t undo it just, um, and that’s so interesting because it, it, it. Like, if we think about it in yoga. If you get injured in a pose, you’re injured, but doesn’t undo the work that you’ve done.

Laura: Mhm. I guess I was thinking of it more as like, I’ve done a lot of work healing my knee and now I can be in. Now I can be in a pose. that. Didn’t feel safe when I had first injured my knee. But then I did something. I moved something and now my knee hurts again. Yes. And now I have to start. I have to start over. As far as exploring this posture again, like I don’t feel the safety in this posture that I had even just yesterday, right? Because now my knee hurts again. I think that’s what that’s.

Renae: What you meant. Okay.

Laura: Yeah, yeah.

Renae: Yeah, yeah. And in that case, yeah, I think that that’s the it. So it is, it is like, how do you adapt? How do you, how do you create the conditions for success? It may mean that you’re, you need to ice and elevate and, you know, do have some inflammatory. You’re going to change the poses. You might have bolsters or blocks or things in that space. You might, you’re going to test a little bit, do little experiments to see how far that you can go. Um, And then, but and then like lots and lots of compassion towards yourself. Right. So all of those. Yes. All of those things absolutely would align.

Laura: Mhm. Mhm.

Renae: I think there’s also. This, the there is a neurodivergence piece of this too, that, um, um, rejection sensitivity for people who have ADHD is a real thing. And, um, I remember speaking with a family member, um, about it at one point and saying like, I don’t think you, I don’t think it’s clear that it’s not that I can’t take criticism, it’s that when I feel rejected, it’s physically painful. She’s like, well, it hurts everybody to be rejected. I said, I don’t think it does. In the same way. And, and so there’s been just a lot of research and studies about that. Like the, the, the, um, the part of the brain that feels physical pain is activated when you’re ignored.

Laura: Mhm. Mhm.

Renae: And rejection is if you’re, if rejection is a form of ignore of, you know, again, ignoring, dismissing you, you can’t be here like that. What you’re, you’re unacceptable. Um, and so I think that that’s part of why it hurts so much too, right? So it’s like this complicated thing that it’s both my neurodivergence and my trauma history. It’s just messy. And so the work continues. The work continues.

Laura: Just when you get your knee fixed.

Renae: Damn it. So I, you know, in in thinking about the. As we’ve talked about before. You know, taking the time to think about the drivers, what’s driving me and my reactions and my responses, because I have both. And what’s driving the other person or what could be driving the other person?

Laura: Yeah. I think a big thing that we skipped over, not necessarily skipped over, but just because you and I are used to digging into this. It’s just the idea that or the the fact that instead of you just being upset and shutting down or whatever reaction you might have had, you’ve spent the last twenty four hours digging into the why of this, really working to understand this, really working to put a name to this digging beneath, you know, all of the layers of this stuff, which I think that, I mean, it doesn’t fix the problem right away, but I mean, it gets you that much closer to it once you understand what the problem is. I mean, the problem, you know what I’m saying? Like, it’s all of this work that you’ve already trained yourself to do and all of these tools that you already have collected, like now, how efficiently you’re able to use those.

Renae: Well, thank you. I will receive that. I will receive that. And while I know that there’s also part of like my preoccupied attachment strategy from, from before that showing up here too is the like the continuing to ponder. Um, I think, um, before I even knew about all of that, the question my in my brain was, um, growing, even growing up, I keep thinking about it because I’m trying to make sense of it in a way that lets me move forward. Like I want to put a plan in place. I don’t want, I don’t want to be surprised by hurt again. And I, and I, and I think there’s also like a, you know, when I was younger and had less tools, part of the plan was like, well, if they say this, I’m going to say this. If they say this, I’m going to say this like, you know, here’s how I’m going to go on the offensive. And I’m actually like it. My desire is always going to be when I’m in a healthy place, um, repair. I’m going to want repair and and so, and I also can’t force repair, nor should anyone try to do that. Um, that’s because forces where people get hurt, um, and things break, but that, like that testing of like, is there any approach in which I can clear the deck because I don’t like to live with. I like to keep short accounts. I don’t want to hold grudges. It does not do well for anybody.

Laura: Right.

Renae: And, and also, I, you know, like the very human part of me is like, I would like some credit because I am. In my unhealthiest state, I am I mean, I am so mean. I have this. I have intentionally and unintentionally reduced people’s puddles of tears in my life, and I work hard not to default to those places, especially if I can feel my nervous system start to activate. So every once in a while I say to my husband, how come I’m not getting any credit for the fact that I’m not being mean?

Laura: You don’t have any idea how regulated I am.

Renae: I’ve literally said that to my kids. I’m like, you have no idea. It is in my DNA right now to smash you into the ground until you stop talking. And I’m not doing any of that. I’m sitting here and I’m regulating myself and I freaking deserve an award. Which again is like, oh, the state of the world that would be award worthy in my mind. Um, just, just stay regulated. Geez. Louise versus it being everyone’s default. Um, it just kind of shows you too, like there’s so much going on. And I think that is my compassion point is there is so much going on and, and, and then my awareness also that. This person probably never thought about it again and is never going to think about it again and didn’t think anything was wrong.

Laura: Wow. I hope they feel real bad.

Renae: I don’t think they will. And I’m going to have to be okay with that.

Laura: Don’t seem fair to me, but.

Renae: And so again, it it is the what is my responsibility? What what do I need to do? Um. What kind of what kind of boundaries are helpful for me as I am? Um, you know, realigning myself and treating myself with compassion and care and making sure that I have the things I need in order to heal. Um, because I don’t, I, I, I wasn’t broken, but trust was broken.

Laura: Yes. I think that’s a very, very, um, insightful and accurate statement. It wasn’t like something. Yeah. Yeah, I guess that’s what I was starting to feel like starting to get out when I said like, do you feel like it undid things or like, yeah, undid your trust in being able to show up as your complete and total self and have everyone be accepting of that? Yeah. I mean, I wonder if. Part of it is like less to do with repair in that person and also just the bravery to continue showing up as your full and complete self.

Renae: I think I think the other part of this, it’s so important for me is I have real, tangible, important goals that are right in front of me and I want it. It’s as I’ve been doing the work that I am meant to do. And it’s so clear. And people are paying me good money to do the work I’m supposed to do. Um, that requires an expansive approach, and it requires me to be able to continue to show up as my full and authentic self. And so what my, I think the reason that the boundaries piece becomes so important for me here is I have to protect the momentum I have is, is I’ve, these opportunities have increased and, and I want, and I want to have more of them. And I want to be able to show up without fear and without feeling like I have to protect myself. And so I that I think that to me is like the wisdom of the boundaries is to make sure that I don’t retreat.

Laura: Yeah, yeah, I think that’s, uh, a big thing.

Renae: And I think it’s such a I think it’s a reminder too, that, you know, while we are not responsible for how people make meaning of what they’ve experienced, we are responsible for how we biologically charge them. Meaning if I know something is triggering to you. And I trigger you by doing the thing that you know is not okay. I’m responsible for that.

Laura: Yeah.

Renae: And if I’m in, if I’m in, um, if I’m in relationship with you and I say that I’m trusted. And I mess it up. I’m responsible for saying I’ve messed this up. I’m sorry. And recognizing that there’s repair work to do and there’s trust to be rebuilt. And if I’m not in relationship with you and I’m just going through the drive through and you’re the person over the side of the counter, I’m responsible for not being a butt.

Laura: Mhm.

Renae: Like, even if I’m frustrated, they did not try to ruin my day. Right. But to I think it’s that showing up and, and, and saying, like, I have an opportunity here to affect somebody’s nervous system in every interaction I’m in. And I want to be really thoughtful about that.

Laura: Yeah.

Renae: Like we hold a lot of responsibility in somewhere in this whole we have to be independent and I’m not responsible. And that’s none of that is based in the true reality that we we can change the temperature of the room by what energy we bring into the room, we can activate people’s nervous system. For good or for not right.

Laura: But yeah, I, I do, I, I completely agree with you. And the way that I try to operate is like, I’m, I’m always going to try to bring the best energy that I possibly can. And when I’ve done something, I’m going to try to correct it. And then, and then because I follow those two principles, then I can release responsibility for how you’re interpreting what I may or may not be doing.

Renae: Right.

Renae: And I think the. I think for people who are helpers and sometimes people who are leaders as well, it gets tricky in that sometimes the you’re providing care and support. And the truth is, it’s one way. It’s one direction. There isn’t reciprocity in that. And so you carry like a double burden about how you’re showing up, because you do kind of have to put a piece of yourself to the side to be present with that person, to enter into their reality. When you’re problem solving or when you’re addressing dysregulation or crisis or whatever thing happens to be. Yeah. Um, I had that conversation with my husband last night where I said something and he had a fear response and he like kind of started to unload on me and I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I’m in a no win situation here because you’re supposed to be my safe person. For me to say whatever it is I need to say without me having to worry that you’re going to have a visceral fear response.

Laura: Mhm.

Renae: And he’s like, I’m just supposed to shut that part down? I’m like, yes, like literally right now, I need you to be my container and not because I need care. And I think again, it’s like. Like, it’s kind of like, um. An advanced way of thinking about things. And it’s super tricky because then the truth is he can’t because the, it impacts him too.

Laura: Right?

Renae: So I think it just again, points to the importance of, um, you know, continuing to develop your support systems and the people that you can, um, reach out to in those situations.

Laura: Yeah.

Renae: And say, have a ouchy.

Laura: Yeah, yeah.

Laura: Yeah. I mean, in building that toolkit, including the depth of understanding in yourself, like you’re already so much closer to having a plan to move forward than if you had to figure out what’s underneath all of this or figure out who you’re going to go to. Like putting those plans in place when you’re not in crisis mode. Yeah, it is, I think. So, so valuable. Um, critical even. My sister has, um, a music therapist and she trains like she will train her patients to, like, create some sort of music playlist that is calming to them and then to listen to it on a daily basis when they already feel calm. So that then it’s like, that’s not like you don’t whip it out for the first time when you’re freaking out, like it’s a trigger that you have in place already. And I think that what you’re talking about is that same principle, right? Like you’re getting stuff in place so that one hundred percent.

Renae: one hundred percent. Yeah. Interventions don’t work just in crisis. They, they, they, in order for them to, um, in order for them to have a sustainable meaning. That’s, pretty. That’s positive versus just shutting something down. They have to be practiced in in regulation instead of dysregulation. Yeah one hundred percent. And so I don’t know where that leaves us other than figuring out what your. You know, every one of us figuring out what the, what the, the practices are and, and experimenting and saying what’s, you know, you know, we focus on heart, mind, body and soul. And so in this situation, well, maybe I can go through that in this situation, my heart. Um, if I’m looking at healthy relationships and emotional regulation, um, I need to collect some evidence for myself from other relationships that, that remind me that I do have people that will see, hear and value me and that I know that I have a repair strategy in place with them. So it’s not that all of my relationships are going to just regulate me. It’s just this one right now is right. So there’s, there’s my plan around that. I’m going to, you know, collecting evidence. So probably checking in and saying, you know, with my, with some trusted people and, um. Then mind, the organization of mind and my work is to recognize that I’m, I don’t want this to affect the work that I’m doing. And I. Can put in place buffers for myself before and after these interactions to review my resiliency objects or my mantras or the things that, that remind me that this is, this is not every situation. This is just this situation. And it’s not a reflection of my value or my worth. And that, um, it’s, it, it, it doesn’t mean I can’t do my work. Well, I can still expand my work for my body. It’s noticing how it affects, it’s affecting my posture and my jaw and my shoulder and my, my lower back. And so, you know, spending some time giving myself some stretches and allowing myself to go a little bit slower today because I’ve spent so much energy pondering and contemplating about it. And that has taken energy a little bit away from paying attention to what my body might need. So making sure I’m listening to my body and then for my soul, which is our, you know, the rest and play and spirituality, then, um, in my practice of bringing things to God that will be part of it. And that, um, I may not be able to repair with that person, but I can do that repair process with God. Um, and it will be between God and I because there’s not, there has not been any remorse expressed. So it would be really weird for me to be like, I forgive you. To that person. Um, and then, um, you know, maybe I’m going to have to not have to, but maybe I can invite myself into additional rest or play today.

Laura: Nice, right?

Laura: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I’m reminded of that Rob Bell quote. That’s like freedom is or forgiveness. Forgiveness is setting someone free and then finding out that it’s you.

Renae: Right? Right.

Renae: I don’t want to. I don’t want to keep looping back into it and I have to tell. It’s like the. It’s not forgive and forget. It’s forgive. And remember to be kind to yourself and others.

Laura: Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Laura: Yeah, yeah. Rob Bell, um, he has a two part podcast on forgiveness that I have listened to about ten thousand times as I needed it. But it’s like, you know, like you’re not, it’s not saying that what somebody did is okay. Um, or that they shouldn’t suffer some kind of consequence for it. I mean, not that you’re the one to dole that out, but you know, it’s, it’s just, it’s like something different. It’s a mindset for you.

Renae: Yep. Absolutely.

Renae: Absolutely.

Laura: Well.

Renae: Um. Does this does are there any things that you from what I was talking about that really resonated with an experience for you and your own way of creating that container for yourself.

Laura: Um, I just appreciate the, the, I think sometimes when you are going, you’re like doing these exercises, you as in me, um, of like, you know, like I do my like parts exercises a lot. I do a show up and do my yoga. I do my breathwork and like, sometimes it feels like, why am I doing this? Like, this is taking up a lot of my time. And, um, it is validating for me to see how you in this situation have been able to pull those types of tools together to navigate that. And it makes me feel like, okay, this is what I do need to be doing these things. Like I kind of know it, but then at the same time, you know, like you get caught up in your life and you’re like, well, I’ll just put that off until later. So I appreciate that reminder that These regulating practices, whatever they might be in, in your own life, are worthwhile. And taking the time to do that on a daily basis saves you time in, you know, like think of how much you could, how much more you could be spiraling right now.

Renae: Right, right.

Laura: If you already halfway to this understanding of, of what to do. So I appreciate that and I appreciate you sharing, um, just like that, this whole thought process of, of the understanding and it also just has reminded me of how, um, sometimes you think that you’re in a, um, an untouchable place, a complete, a place of complete resilience. I don’t know exactly what to call it, but like, I think that when a lot of times when things aren’t going well, it, it can give you, I don’t want to call it a false sense of security, but you know what I’m saying? Like you’re just like, everything’s fine and nothing’s going to upset me. And then. Then something happens and it does upset you and and how, um, how you can still, you know, navigate that anyway. And that.

Renae: Yeah, you.

Laura: Know, just bringing this sense of, I, I think in a larger sense, I’ve had a real sense of gratitude lately because I, that’s always the thing, that’s always a practice that works for me. But this past weekend, we had all these windstorms in Ohio and, um, our power got knocked out for from Friday until Sunday. And when we don’t have power, we’re on well, water. So our water doesn’t work. Um, but this happened to us like ten years ago. And at that time, my husband bought a generator, which we never really have had to use since, but since he has, since we had this generator, we were able to get like these pockets of power, like one or two hours so that you could flush all the toilets and take a bath and, um, and then when the electricity came back on and they originally had said so it went on a Friday and we started getting texts on Saturday and Sunday that are like, we’re going to try to have it back on by Tuesday. And we’re just like, oh my God. Oh, we don’t really have anywhere else to go. I mean, our house was livable, you know what I mean? Like we, we could stay here. But last time it happened, my in-laws lived in town and we just, you know, spent the night at their house and took showers and stuff. Um, but we didn’t really have anywhere else to go. So we’re just basically like living in this giant tent pretty much. And, um, so when the power came back on, I just had this huge sense of gratitude that I can like have the internet and I can flush the toilet. And so I think all that to say that this, um, you know, your story just also gives me a sense of gratitude that I have someone that is reminding me of all these, these Use things to do.

Renae: Yeah.

Renae: That’s awesome. Thank you for sharing that. And, um, I like your visual of I’m in a house, but it’s a tent. I’m basically.

Renae: Glamping. I’m glamping without.

Renae: Electricity and plumbing.

Renae: Um.

Laura: We’re literally cooking food over.

Laura: Fire.

Laura: Because the gas works.

Renae: So good.

Laura: Don’t worry, you can’t wash the dishes outside of a campsite type of setting because we have just like pitchers of water. Awesome.

Renae: Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Well, I, I appreciate you and I appreciate you holding space and not knowing what kind of journey we were going to go on today with this as we’re backing it, but being so gracious and thoughtful and, and reflective with me. Thank you.

Laura: Ma’am.

Laura: Happy to be here.