Presence Over Productivity: A Kinder Rhythm for Life

Renae: So, um, with that theme of reclaiming your rhythm and mind, what would you like to talk about today?

Laura: I don’t know. Great question.

Renae: What’s that bring up for you?

Laura: Um. I guess it’s kind of because it’s on my mind, you know, just this idea of letting yourself have space. And being generous with that and not feeling like, you know, there’s like this anxiety that goes with needing to be doing something productive and feeling like open pockets of time are wasteful. How are you going to be filling those up? I think that’s especially relevant at the holidays, um, when there are so many demands, extra demands on your time. And I think this will be a really good exercise for people to be really thoughtful about how they are spending their time.

Renae: And I think that that, part of it, you know, when we’re, when we’re children, um, broad strokes statement here when we’re children and we’re going into. Holiday time or family time or what I would call like, you know, non, non regular season. Um, there’s often there are events or experiences or um, Traditions that have wonder in them that bring joy. And as kids, we don’t generally sit there and go, I wonder what it took to make that happen. We’re just experiencing it. And then as we’re as we’re older, um, we we start to learn what it takes to experience that, what it takes, what it takes to make those things happen. And is it is a a, I don’t know, movement. It’s work in love to give that to other people. And I think being honest with that, it’s also part of our desire to recapture some of that wonder or joy connectedness that we experienced as children. And so the, the, um, you know, I don’t I think to me part of it is. Sometimes when I make really big, elaborate meals, I’ve done so much tasting of everything as I’m going through to make sure that the seasoning is right, the levels are right by the time we get to the meal. I’m not hungry anymore.

Laura: Yeah, I’m the worst at doing that.

Renae: And so I could just sit. And so I just kind of sit there and be like, hope it was great. Everybody, you know. Um, and so I miss the I miss part of the experience because I, I’ve spent all this energy, time and focus creating it for other people. And I feel like that happens sometimes in our, in our holiday or, um, you know, celebratory seasons, um, where we, we, we either haven’t had the opportunity or don’t know how to create that space so that we can encounter the wonder, the joy, the peace.

Laura: Yeah. That’s such an interesting thing that you bring up. I so two things. It first is I so feel like that about Thanksgiving dinner. Like I do enjoy cooking, but there’s so much work involved. And then we sit down and it’s like fifteen minutes and I’m just like, what did I do this for? Last year we went out and honestly, the food wasn’t as good, but it was. It was great because I didn’t have to do anything but show up and then leave, and I didn’t have to wash dishes or plant anything. Uh, so that, that that’s such a perfect example of what you’re talking about. I’m like, that’s so relatable to me. And then it also makes me think about, um, and I think this usually in, I don’t know, maybe I shouldn’t say usually in most homes, but I would say that in the majority of homes that I’m familiar with, it’s the mom that’s like, you know, making sure that Santa Claus came and that Santa Claus had different wrapping paper.

Renae: Oh my gosh. Yes!

Laura: And, you know, and my my husband is the one that are at our house did that and was, you know, just making all of that stuff happen for the kids. And even when you were talking about the care packages, like, he’s the one that sends care packages. Like he just sent one last literally last week to our daughter. And then that really is an interesting question for me to consider. Like, what would be an experience that he would want to have this holiday season that I might be able to create for him, since he’s usually the one that is creating all the experiences. I do think that he enjoys some of, you know, because he he likes creating them and he keeps doing it, but it would be fun to have something that he could just sit down at and enjoy. So thank you for giving me that idea.

Renae: Absolutely well in it. And I think that’s part of, um, the structured free time is actually super important, I think. And I think even having it’s okay for us to have blocks of time in our holiday seasons where and then communicate to everybody, this is what’s going to happen. And if people are like, that’s too regimented there, I promise you that there are people in your system whose nervous systems will thank you for having some idea of what is going to happen. It creates safety. It’s we need a little, even if it’s just like this morning between nine and twelve. We’re doing these things. We don’t know what order, but we’re doing these things and then we’re going to eat like. And so we’re going to eat here. We’re going to have snacks here. These are the things that are going to be available. And I and I understand how if that’s not something that is common, that feels like, oh, here’s another thing. Well, here’s a great news. It is the time of this recording. It is two like eight weeks before Christmas and four weeks before Thanksgiving and all kinds of other holidays that are coming up. So you have time to practice. Now you can just take a just take a day and block it out and communicate to the people around you of, this is what’s happening on this day. And here’s when we’re having snacks and here’s when we’re eating and here’s what we’re playing, and here’s where we’re resting and here’s we’re having togetherness and here’s where we’re having separate togetherness. Um, and just to communicate that and figure out how, you know, how does that feel? What are people’s needs around that? And if people are like, well, no, we have it down. If you have it down and you’re not communicating it, um, have you made room for if something changes or if new people are added to the system?

Laura: Yes. Yeah.

Renae: Right. And especially the, you know, this recording of this is in, the fall of twenty twenty five and we’re heading into, a week where, food insecurity is going to skyrocket. Skyrocket. I’m in Los Angeles. And when Snap benefits end on the first, over nine hundred thousand families in Los Angeles County are going to be affected. So our tables might look a little different this year when we’re gathering, because if we’re looking around and seeing that there are people who don’t have places to go or food or connection or community or things don’t feel safe. it it becomes even more important for us to communicate, what are we going to do? How are we going to plan this and create space for connection and community, and for people to just be who they are and for it to be safe for all of us? Um, if we have it down, then there’s probably people who around us who don’t have it down, and maybe they need some support and it’s okay for us to do that. But how do we keep that safe for our system and sustainable for our system?

Laura: it’s a good balance, right? Like, you’re you are meeting your own needs first before you are extending, Standing. Um, you know, if you’re overextended, as we always say, if you’re already overextended, then it’s not that helpful for you to extend yourself out to other people. Um, and you can do so much more supportive work when you are nourished first.

Renae: And again to be very clear, we do not nourish ourselves so that we can nourish other people. We nourish ourselves because we are worthy of being nourished. And when that is done well we turns out we have capacity and will naturally look up to find and see other people and support them. Because humans are amazing that way.

Laura: It magnifies your ability to do that when you start with that own sense of self-worth.

Renae: Yep. So I have a question for you about this, um, this experience you’re having right now of having. Face time, um, un un dedicated Resources or, you know, like or space where there’s no resources dedicated to it. Um, and feeling like, oh, I need to put something there. If you were going to liken that to a restorative yoga practice, what would you tell a student who was struggling to be in the stillness? Waiting in that space?

Laura: Yeah, I, I think that. I would allow them to I mean, if it was, if it was a someone like maybe zoom out one more and just say like I can’t calm my mind. Like, what kind of yoga do I need?

Renae: Um.

Laura: I might tell them to experiment with that and to see, like, do they want to be in a flow class where they’re moving the whole time, but they’re still really focused on their body? Like that can be a good thing for people who have a busy mind and have trouble just lying there. Um, like it might feel to them in a restorative practice. And then I also everything comes with nuance, right? Like, if you’re the kind of person that always just does flow classes and hates to do classes where you’re more still like, that’s a thing for you to examine. Like, what are you? What are you hiding from? And then but I mean, to me, that’s like an entry level place is this movement. And when, um, people have trouble sitting in Shavasana, I always recommend to them to, um, focus on the breath. I mean, that’s like the first and best place to go.

Renae: Mhm. Mhm. Mhm.

Laura: And from there, maybe explore, you know, like when you’re not in Shavasana or you’re not in restorative like exploring some sort of. Just like mantra. I think we’ve talked about this like mine lately has just been like surrender. Like, I, I’m just surrendering to trying to force everything to happen and need everything to happen and, and just finding that one thing to concentrate on. And so that is what I have been bringing into this week of being like, I like part of my, my I think it’s I almost think of it as like my habitual mind. It wants to say, okay, now you have some free time. Like what are you going to do? You have this big laundry list of things that you want to make happen. Which one are you going to be working on? And then you have also that habitual voice of criticism that’s just like, what did you even do today? Like you had so much space and why? Why weren’t all these things done? And then I have this, you know, this surrender person that is saying like, it’s okay. Like, you know, you you you are allowed to reclaim some, uh, calm from the last week because it was very stressful and agitated my system and at the same time, like, let some stuff happen organically. That does take you some steps forward. Or maybe, maybe it doesn’t. Like I worked for like maybe four hours this week drawing jack o lanterns and and leaves, and that served no purpose except for to calm my nervous system, which, as we were just saying, is ground zero, the starting place, the starting place for all of the things that I want to do, require me to have a calm, creative mind. And so doing exercises that put me into that space or worth my time, even though they feel like to, you know, this pessimistic guy over here. Like a waste of time?

Renae: And that’s been a that’s been a theme for you. I think the entire time I’ve known you is the the narrative of waste of Time and what production, like the production, production with a tangible outcome is the right thing in that narrative. And so pushing against that narrative to say that’s that is an outcome that is not an input, right? Like that. You’re what you’re talking about with the, the your, your, our goals are also include our inputs.

Laura: Yes. Right.

Renae: Right. And I don’t think we we don’t talk about that because we think of goals as outcomes sometimes outputs. But like, I’m going to do this thing that will get me this result.

Laura: Yeah.

Renae: And what we’re talking about is there’s a step ahead of that. That’s your input. And that’s your your how you’re setting up your environment, what you’re going to do, what you’re going to give, what resources. And that sets you through this list of these are like, it’s okay for me to need things and not just try to magically make this appear. And sometimes in that that intentional process, the process of intentionally, um, gathering your inputs and applying them, you, it may be revealed that your the goal of your output and is not actually aligned. And I think that’s part of what we’ve talked about over the years or the years. It feels like years, but it has been almost years.

Laura: Yeah. The eighteen months.

Renae: Right.

Laura: Yeah, I literally was just studying before we got on this call. Like my yoga theme for next month is going to be this idea of practice and non-attachment. So, you know, if you and this is from the Yoga Sutras, like if, if Patanjali sets out at the beginning that that yoga is the pursuit of being able to let go of fluctuations in the mind. And so that once you do that, you can be aligned with your true self. And um, and that one of the paths to finding this cessation of fluctuations of the mind is through both practice. So like practicing your yoga but then also non-attachment. So practicing it without the expectation that something grand is going to happen. And I, I definitely think about like on a yoga on a yoga level Well, my this this past year I set out to try to be better at arm balances because I couldn’t do anything at all. And I have worked on them for, I mean, since January. So this is the end of October, ten months and still can barely do a few of them. And don’t think I’ll ever be an expert arm balancer. However, just the practice of doing that has built so much just like strength in my body. And so the practice has yielded things that out outweigh the actual goal that I originally had. And so, you know, just that idea of I’m going to just keep doing this. And that’s the practice part, whether or not I can actually ever achieve a perfect arm balance. That’s the non-attachment part. But I’m still that’s still the goal I’m moving toward. But I have, and this is not true in every stage of my life as we’re just talking about. But this has been a really good example for me of where I was able to just keep practicing in pursuit of a thing, but not worrying about whether I ever achieve the thing in its full expression.

Renae: Well, in the, um, I just as a note, I do struggle with the non-attachment words. I understand the concept. Um, so maybe it’s not. Maybe not to be, uh, fully invested in the outcomes, because attachment is actually very important for us as development as humans. but the the piece of, practicing. Not feeling the time or using the time to contemplate or using the time to take a walk, or using the time to notice things. Whatever it is, is it’s like if you feel like you need to move during that time when there’s not something scheduled. Listen to your body move. And also do not do not be bullied into making it productive, right? Practice. Practice being in your body and experiencing this life and not having to make something while you do it.

Laura: Right? Yes.

Renae: Right. That’s. And it’s hard. It’s hard. I knit an entire sweater in a movie. I memorized the stitch. I knit a sweater in a movie theater because the movie was so stupid. But my kids wanted to see it, and I just. And. And my therapist is like, what? And I’m like, I actually it was so. It was so banal. I couldn’t sit there and experience it because it was just so awful. And she’s like, do you do this often? I’m like, I always am doing something. I never am just watching TV, which is not always true anymore. Every once in a while I do stop as part of why I make myself watch foreign language things actually, so that I can’t be soft, focus on the TV. And actually I’m paying attention.

Laura: Oh. That’s smart. Like you have to pay attention to the words. Yeah.

Renae: Yeah, because I’m like, I don’t speak that language.

Laura: Mhm.

Renae: Um. so but the, um, the that. That practice of being sets us up for being able to connect better to people and be present with them in, in our engagement. So it’s like we’re practicing presence with ourselves. And that builds the muscles that help us to be present with other people as well. And I think that presence is the best present. Often that we can give people is to help them to be seen, heard and valued. I was having this conversation with a parent last night. Um, single parent, um, teenage, almost teenage boy. A, um. And kiddo has a trauma history. It’s an adoptive parent. And the conversation was, um, you know what? What are what are the needs? How are we decoding these behaviors and telling us what those needs are? And it came down to, you know, he wants more attention. I said, can you give him more? And she’s like, I’m, I’m a I’m with him all the time. And I turned and I looked at her deeply into the eyes and said, there’s a difference between what attention I’m giving you right now, where we are attuned and I am present with you, and time has stopped. Then sitting next to someone on a couch. And we need both of those. And you’re providing the latter plenty. You’re being present. You’re being in proximity. But proximity and presence are not the same thing. And there is this, this piece of, um, stopping time in and saying, you are you like you, you, you and I are the only things happening right now. I think about like, the, the scene from, um, West Side Story when Tony and Maria meet at the dance and everybody fades away and it’s just the two of them, and there’s this thing of attunement where people feel felt and they are known, and that there’s so many, uh, neurochemical processes that happen with that. There’s so many things that happen to the soul. There’s things that happen biologically when we have that attunement. And so part of it is that practicing tuning into yourself, uh, then gives you capacity for tuning to other people so that you get the best of both worlds.

Laura: my husband used to, we call it. We still call it the Toddler principle, where he. When he stayed home, he would have a bunch of things that he needed to do, and he would kind of, you know, be putting off our son who would just become increasingly more demanding for his attention. And he found that if he would just play with him first and give him his full attention for not even that long, then he could go do whatever he needed to do. And our son was satisfied instead of like when he was trying to flip that, like getting all the stuff he needed to get done first and then playing with him, that never worked out as well.

Renae: Right. And that’s it.

Laura: So like that total focus and presence first, and then he was able to get everything else done that he needed to get done. A lot more easily.

Renae: That. And if if you’re listening to this and you’re thinking, gosh, that’s really hard to do, I don’t know that I have the capacity for that. This is why you’re practicing it with yourself first.

Laura: Mhm.

Renae: This is why you’re creating the wisdom of creating those pockets of time. Because it does. It does tell a little bit of a story that maybe you didn’t get that kind of attunement consistently in parts of your developmental history. so you haven’t developed that muscle and so.

Laura: Right. I mean the toddler is a metaphor for your mind. right? Like it’s this piece of you is demanding attention, and it’s going to be nagging at you. And until you sit down and devote your devote some attention to it, it’s going to be there nagging you while you try to, quote, get stuff done.

Renae: Um. Right?

Laura: And if you just plan out some time to do the things that you need to do to nourish that piece of yourself, then everything else is going to be easier.

Renae: Yeah. And again, it’s so countercultural.

Laura: Barry and it feels like I always love to say, feels like a waste of time.

Renae: Right. Right.

Laura: And you, I still I am practicing this for at least two years now. Well, I mean, I’ve been practicing meditation for a very long time, and that always feels like I don’t have time for it. But what I’ve really learned early on is like, I don’t have time to feel anxious and stressed. So if I take this time to meditate and now, you know, for the past two years with my creative practice, I know how much better I feel and how much easier the rest of my work is when I do it. And I still have to say to myself, this isn’t a waste of your time. You are allowed to take fifteen minutes and color this paper bag, because you know that you’re gonna feel better for the whole rest of the day.

Renae: And it’s. Right? Yeah. And it’s, um. I will say, too, that this I think this realization comes with some age and experience. Um, because it’s not unlike when you’re twenty and you can survive on two hours of sleep, right? Like, and so in so many, in so many ways, what this is, is it’s telling the truth of, um, the the energy, the momentum, the metabolism, the pace of life, the less having less, um, obligations and responsibilities left me unfettered enough that I could do. I had the energy for all these things, and that’s just not my reality now. And when we talk about that, people want resilience to be that. We bounce back to something we that’s that’s telling a lie right now because we can’t bounce back to that. We’re not we’re just not there. We’re not there. And so what do what again, it comes to the what are the things that we can do proactively to create that space. Um. That builds that practice so that when we get to, when things are, are more stressful, we’ve already built that capacity. Right. Like practicing CPR, like, you know, all sorts of different things. So what are you going to do, Laura, for this season? What is this helped you to think about.

Laura: Well, for sure, I’m going to, uh, try to create something fun for my husband to experience. And then also, I’m going to continue carving out wastes of time to just, um, be slow.

Renae: For, for me um I think it’s going to be the communicating to my ecosystem. Um what, what rhythms I’m going to be moving in and that I’m. I’m making myself okay with not maybe doing all the things I’ve done before or having the same level of production. Um, and I’m preparing them ahead of time that that the that the role. It might be different. The the and the season is going to be different for many reasons for our circumstances anyway. And it’s been incredibly this has been such a, um, such a challenge over the last two years of realizing, oh, we don’t get to have the holidays, um, because of what’s going on, um, in our lives. Um, and what that has meant to me and how how we’ve needed to reframe that and say, well, what is the what’s the most essential? And I think that’s probably like the central question for me is what is most essential for us to feel a level of satisfaction. Not not elation. Not dopamine hits. Not like, oh, that was the best ever. But like, yeah, we’re connected and that feels good.

Laura: Contentment.

Renae: Contentment. Um, so what is essential for for us to feel a level of contentment? And what do we need? What do each of us need individually and collectively to experience that? So. Oh, well, there we go. We’ve solved everybody’s. I’m just kidding. We haven’t solved anything. We’ve just talked about some stuff and, um.

Laura: Now we can all have the greatest holiday we’ve ever had.

Renae: Um, so the, you know, uh, we’ll have some resources on the, on the website for, um, both the restoration sessions coming up and then other practices that we could focus on. Um, for building that capacity. So as always, Laura, thank you so much for being here.

Laura: Thanks for having me. Great conversation.

Renae: Awesome.