Respect Your Boundary First: The Shift That Changes Everything

Renae: Well. Hey, Laura.

Laura: Hey, Renae. How are you?

Renae: You know what? I’m excited to talk about this week. Two of the Good helper, because it’s crept into my life is as our stuff tends to do. So, um, I’m glad that you’re here and that we get to talk about this today.

Laura: Yeah, absolutely. We’ll jump into it. Tell me where you’re seeing this show up.

Renae: Um, I’m having lots of conversations with people about the concept of boundaries, and, um, this this shows up with the The Good Helper. We talked about this a little bit last week of the resentment that can grow when, as a good helper, that part of us, um, gives and invests and is sacrificial. And maybe that’s not reciprocated. And there’s all kinds of reasons it’s not reciprocated. We’re not that’s it’s not that we shouldn’t care. It’s not that we shouldn’t give. It’s not that we should just cut ourselves off from other people. But how are we doing this in in healthy ways? And so, like the number one thing that I hear people say is, oh, well, I so and so didn’t respect my boundary. And I and we’ve talked about this before, but I keep coming back to we don’t have to worry about other people respecting your boundary. You need to respect your boundary. This is a this is a you thing. And I think that that’s really um, it gets really complicated for people, and it’s very different than the ways that we’ve been taught about it. I mean, there’s so many books that have been written about boundaries that are you gotta, you know, make sure that person respects your boundary. You gotta hold that boundary and, and make sure people don’t do whatever to you instead of taking a look at what is that boundary actually mean?

Laura: Yeah, it’s interesting when when people say, you know, like, this person didn’t respect my boundary. What do you think’s underneath that? And do you think it’s a fear that this person is going to care what I’m doing if I hold this boundary or, like, expand on that a little bit more, because that’s really interesting to me.

Renae: Yeah, I think it, it comes a little bit from um, well, one, one part is that boundaries have been used, um, as a they’ve been weaponized in some respects as a way to try to control a situation or a narrative. And so that that’s where it becomes messy is, is that if you think that setting a boundary is control over the situation, you’re going to end up being pretty disappointed, um, because you can’t control the situation. Um.

Laura: I think that’s a really important point for people, because I think that a lot of times you have a false expectation about what a boundary is going to be able to do for you and

Renae: Yeah.

Laura: what you’re bringing to light, and I think is so accurate is that it’s it’s not going to be it’s not going to be a solution in itself.

Renae: Right. Well, and so the boundary naturally flows out of when we are anchoring into our own, um, identity and purpose and self-worth and our, um, insistence that we are worthy of respect. Respect being that I’m holding the value that I should be seen, heard and valued. Um, and the the more that that really does take us getting to know ourselves more, right? Because as we root into that, we we become common and peaceful, um, about being in our own skin and about understanding what is good for us and what is not good for us. And so when we say, I’m going to do this or I’m not going to do this, that’s that’s your boundary. What your boundary is for you, you’re creating container for you to be able to function in a way that’s healthy.

Laura: Right. So an example of an unhealthy boundary might be like, you can’t do this thing, right? So like,

Renae: Right?

Laura: that’s a boundary that you’re setting for another person, which

Renae: Right.

Laura: we know is never going to work

Renae: Right.

Laura: well unless you’re really controlling. But, you know, like that’s not healthy boundary. Healthy boundary is coming. Is, is a, um, a boundary you’re setting for your own behavior. Is that what you’re telling us?

Renae: Yeah. So in need to take that example of even saying, well, if you do this then I’m going to do this. That’s that’s not a boundary. That is an ultimatum. That is a you’re setting up a circumstance or a transaction. A boundary is I’m not going to be able to stay here because you’re talking to me this way, and I’m not going to be spoken to that way. And you leave like that’s

Laura: Right.

Renae: like your boundaries are you’re you’re creating a barrier between you and another system person entity organization because you’re saying this isn’t. This is actually damaging to me, and I don’t need to stay in a place where I’m being damaged. So I’m going to put distance between you and me. That’s the boundary.

Laura: Yeah. You know that that you talking through that example reminds me of another of a story of like, an unhealthy boundary, um, where this has been several years ago when my mother in law was still alive. She’s been dead for a long time. But, um, she got really angry once because at church, um, someone had signed her, had made an assumption that she would volunteer for a Vacation Bible school and had, um, you know, said, okay, I have you down for this, this and this. And instead of just saying, well, I can’t do it and not worrying about it anymore, which is what honestly, what I would have done. Um, she just got so mad. And then she did it with bitterness and then quit that church and went and found another church.

Renae: Right. So in think I mean so she created she created another boundary like she left. She created that distance. Um, and so when you asked before, like, what is behind that question or that statement of like, they’re not respecting my boundary, I think is, is this core of fear because, um, the it’s some level we’re aware of the fragility. I’m going to be careful saying this. I’m not calling everyone fragile, but we all are as human beings, pretty fragile. Let’s just be okay with that. Um, because we’re all growing and developing and changing and that we’re creating new systems which are not set in stone. Um, but

Laura: All

Renae: I think

Laura: have fragile places,

Renae: we

Laura: I

Renae: all

Laura: think.

Renae: have.

Laura: I feel

Renae: her.

Laura: comfortable saying that I can make a blanket statement to say

Renae: Again.

Laura: that every one of us has a fragile place somewhere in there.

Renae: So is we’re if we if we have not had the opportunity or the experience of really developing that that stronger sense of self. Um, there’s it. That’s where the fear I think comes from is, um, the, the I’m trying to assert myself and assert an identity or assert a way that I would like things into this world and I’m other people aren’t valuing it or, or respecting it and that, that really becomes, um, more of the, um, to me, like turning the lens around and saying it, you know, it’s okay, it’s okay, you’re in development and it’s just means that you haven’t quite found your anchor in yourself yet. Um,

Laura: Mhm.

Renae: that you’re there. Pushback is is really echoing your own pushback to yourself.

Laura: Mhm. So if that’s kind of like step one of like discernment around boundaries, what are some other um things that people can do to set healthy boundaries or where where else should they start.

Renae: I think that, um, that practicing, you know, we we definitely, um, have highlighted that before in other discussions that we’ve had that, that we’re building neural pathways through experiences. And so giving ourselves opportunities to, to try on situations to, to have the experience of wrestling with something before it has an audience. Um, allows us to really make a make a plan, like a proactive plan and then have a responsive plan. And if I was talking to someone yesterday about, um, play and that, um, especially for those who have experienced, um, being parentified in childhood, that sense of play is, is really can be, can be really challenging to find and to because you, you just didn’t get to work those muscles as much in childhood. And so we were talking about the different ways it comes out now in adulthood because you we want to play. And part of why we want to play is playing allows us the opportunity to imagine ourselves in different scenarios, in different roles, in, in And try things in a very low stakes environment. And we’re trying out, well, what if I was the supervisor in this situation? Or what if, what if I did have this escape room? Or what if you know what, how do like, puzzles and organized sports. Like there’s a there’s a it’s a, it’s a you’re entering into a created reality and trying stuff out. And so in the same way, I think taking that approach of what are some things I can try out to see and be curious and, and run some experiments.

Laura: Yeah, that’s really interesting to me. I mean, so we’re taking something that’s a little bit stressful, you know, changing our behavior. And we’re saying, you know, like you could be playful about it and you could use your imagination and, you know, maybe you’re journaling or something and you’re like, okay, what if I said no to everything for the rest of my life. Like, what would that look like? And you’re not saying that that’s what you’re going to do. You’re just. You’re just playing out that scenario and then like, maybe you’re like, what if I said yes to everything for the rest of my life, you know, and then like, what could be a place in the middle? So you’re really, um, using that imagination to make it interesting for yourself and, you know, like, taking all the pressure away.

Renae: Right. Well. And and and the imagination. In order to figure out where are what is your capacity and where are your edges? I mean, we’re talking again, boundaries. Um, the boundary of a coffee cup. A coffee cup is a boundary to keep your coffee where it’s supposed to be, so it can do its job and get in you.

Laura: Mhm.

Renae: Right?

Laura: Right.

Renae: So, like,

Laura: Wake you up.

Renae: it’s so it’s not like a, you know, it’s it’s not like we’re, like, imposing something Constricting on it. It’s required in order for this very nebulous state of liquid to be able to hold stay in a certain shape to do its job. And in the same way, that’s a little bit of what we’re doing too, is we’re figuring out what are the edges, what can what can we do, what things hurt, what things are uncomfortable. And so, um, I don’t know if you’re familiar with Bob Goff at all.

Laura: No.

Renae: Um, he’s he’s an author and, um, a lawyer. He does a whole bunch of different things. Um, and he is, uh, I, I’m going to I am going to really guess guess he is a seven. Honestly, um, he is incredibly playful. Um, we I, my husband and I have been up with him at Disneyland before because he, he likes to be at Disneyland to do work and have meetings. That’s where he takes meetings. Is in it. Tom Sawyer’s island. Um. And he’s like this prolific

Laura: I

Renae: writer.

Laura: love this guy. I want to have a meeting with them.

Renae: And he puts his phone number, his cell number in his books and tells people, you can text me. And like, my husband’s like, yeah, right. And he, like, totally texted him. And they had a conversation. And his thing is he quit something every Thursday.

Laura: I love

Renae: Like, it’s

Laura: that.

Renae: one of many things. But every Thursday he quits something. And every year at the end of the year, he dissolves his company and then reforms it at the beginning of the year. And he he’s like, this is about starting over and second chances and being open and and curious. And so there is a there is something to that of, well, what if we didn’t do it that way? And what if we what if what would happen if we say no? And so I do tease that out. When I’m working with people and coaching. I tease that out a lot of okay, so you say no, what happens? Um, and so part of it, um, we often in conversations with people look for external permission slips. We’re looking for someone to say, you know, you don’t have to do that. And I around the holidays, especially when I’m doing lots of in-person sessions for workplaces, I will say, I just want to say this for whoever needs to hear it. You do not need to go to any holiday gathering where your abuser is at. Point blank you can

Laura: Write

Renae: say no.

Laura: the end.

Renae: There you go. No is a complete sentence. You don’t have to equivocate it. And, um, you know, my my daughter always laughs because she’ll say, well how come you can’t do that? And I and I said, well, I can’t do it. She goes why? I’m like, because I don’t want to.

Laura: Love it.

Renae: That’s why. So

Laura: You

Renae: therefore

Laura: know, this,

Renae: I

Laura: this

Renae: can’t.

Laura: past summer, I. We were my husband and I. It was like graduation season. And one of our friends, you know, their child was graduating and they had a graduation party. And so I was like, oh, you know, so and so’s graduation parties today. And my husband was feeling especially sad that day, just about the state of his dad’s health. And so he was just really kind of mopey and, um, you know, not his normal, charming self. And so we’re like, halfway there and I said, you know, like, what’s wrong? And and he told me, you know, and I said, well, we don’t have to go to this party. And he was like, really? I was like, yeah. And so we turned around and went home. And you know what? They were fine. We sent them a gift. And nothing tragic happened. And

Renae: Yeah.

Laura: he didn’t have to pretend to be happy.

Renae: Well, and I think that’s part of like when we look at even, um, you know, the quiet quitting that happened past post pandemic and people the, the great resignation and people leaving the workforce. There was a piece of this too. Um, people had the experience of, of a different reality and of a different rhythm and a different pace of life. And they realized how much better their life was when they weren’t trying to contort themselves to fit a particular dynamic. And so when it came time to go back to that dynamic, they could look at it and say, I know this is actually not this is not okay for me. It’s not okay for me to be treated this way or to be expected to do these things that are really out of alignment with who I am. And so people have I mean, it’s really just changed the workforce, um, in the way that we think about work. And so it in order for us maybe not to have to have such drastic experiences of that, some doing, some of that internal curiosity of saying like what? You know, what if I could do have a day? That was exactly the day working a working day. That was exactly the way that I would like it to be. What would I do? And then figure out, like where? Where are the automatic yes’s and no’s that you’re assuming going through your day to day right now that maybe don’t have to be that way.

Laura: Yeah, I think that’s a really powerful exercise. Um, because you’re so set on autopilot of things that you just do and don’t really question whether

Renae: Well.

Laura: or not. And I think the other thing, too, that you’re getting at is you can do an experiment, and if it fails, just go back to the way things are,

Renae: Yeah.

Laura: you know, like that’s how you’re going to learn what is going to work and what isn’t going to work.

Renae: Right, right. And it’s, um, I think that is, is community members. One of the things, you know, we have people in our lives. I think one way that we can help other people is to also even just speak out loud the concept of, it’s okay to try this out or you know, it. Just creating that culture of we don’t have to have it all figured out. And it’s okay if you try things like, let’s just try it. What’s like and I had a, um, a workplace. Um, I don’t know if he’ll ever listen to this podcast, but it was I got to find a best friend who was my supervisor in this workplace, and we did. Things like super wild things that I had not seen that had not experienced that we were like, oh, let’s do this. And then we do it. And I really flourished in that role. And part of it is he had figured out I what I need is parameters and a safety net. I need to know that you got my back, that you trust me and you tell me what my parameters are and then I will come up with amazing things. And so I’ve tried as a leader, I’ve learned so much from that, that when I, when I was, you know, managing both interns and paid staff is to create that same environment to say, let’s just try it. And so with that, it’s it’s understanding, um, it gives you that, that and then having a reflection afterward to say, okay, where was my like this. Where did did this other narrative come from? And we’re talking about the the good helper part. Where did this good helper thing of I have to I should, I must um, where was the fear coming up that if I said no or I stopped and paused, what would happen? Right? What what’s what is what are the other narratives that are coming up? And where does that voice come from?

Laura: Yeah, right. Like, so what you’re talking about is, is really like identifying this good helper part of you, and starting to flesh out the stories of why it doesn’t want to set any appropriate boundaries, and why it always needs to feel like it has the responsibility to take on everything or whatever it feels.

Renae: Yeah. And and while there are people who are manipulative in the world who will sense if you’re responding or reacting from that good helper place, and we’ll use that. In general, people are not going around looking to exploit that part of you. And so I think part of that the it’s becoming really curious and and questioning, wait, did this really come from this person? Is this their story or my story? Um, and so when I even when I want to, if I’m going to say no to something. Um. Am I saying no to what this is going to mean, or am I saying no to the person most of the time? Unless they’re an unhealthy person, that’s causing harm. We’re saying no to what it means. We’re saying no because it has implication for us. That is not part of the narrative that we that we want to carry in ourselves. And so that gives us a, um, a much more gracious way to approach it where it’s not confrontational. It’s saying, oh, um, I know, thank you. I there we go. And then moving to the next part.

Laura: Right. There’s, um, a book. Gosh, I can’t. I feel like I should have it on my shelf right here. It is that book about negotiation by Chris Voss. Do you remember what that’s called?

Renae: Um.

Laura: Um. Oh, never split the difference. And so I mean, it’s kind of off topic, but what remind what you’re saying reminds me of this person who was like, I think he was a hostage negotiator for like the FBI or something. And now it’s just kind of like taking those skills to, um, people like you and me who are trying to, you know, get the lowest price for a car or whatever. And his his response is like, oh, I’m sorry, I just can’t do that. Renae. I’m sorry. I just can’t do that. Renae.

Renae: Mhm.

Laura: You know, like, that was, you know, he would just repeat that. And so that reminds me of that, you know, like, could you help out with this thing? Oh, I’m sorry, I just can’t do that, you know, like that does what you’re saying. It takes it away from that person and just says, oh, yeah, sorry. It’s me.

Renae: Well and I, I think that there’s something about the, it’s, it’s not confidence like bravado but it’s confidence in that you don’t have to settle. And

Laura: Right?

Renae: I think that that’s, um, I’m I’m reminded of. Gosh, this is over twenty five years ago. Um, I it wow. That was a long time ago. Um, I was temping at a publishing, um. Or it was it advertising and publishing, uh, role. And, um, they wanted to hire me. They wanted to buy out my contract and hire me. And so the publisher, um, came and said, okay, we’d like to, you know, offer you. And I said, oh, gosh, no, I can’t work for that little. I said, but don’t worry, you’ll find somebody. And and I kept saying that because he’s like, are you sure you can’t? I was like, no, it’ll be fine, but don’t worry, you’ll find somebody. And I wasn’t. It wasn’t like even a tactic. It was just my genuine like

Laura: Yeah

Renae: it, you know.

Laura: yeah yeah.

Renae: Thank you. And so I, I find myself falling into the the, um. Thank you so much for thinking of me. That’s not going to work out at this time.

Laura: Yeah.

Renae: But don’t worry. You’ll find somebody, you know,

Laura: Yeah.

Renae: and

Laura: Yeah.

Renae: and

Laura: Absolutely.

Renae: and I’m like the worst this like, I, I am the worst to negotiate with because. I’m not I don’t I can’t I know, I just know I’ve, I’ve had to practice really. Um. Like anchoring into my worth

Laura: Mhm.

Renae: and saying, like, this is what I will do. This is what I will not do.

Laura: Yeah.

Renae: And if it doesn’t work out okay, it doesn’t mean

Laura: Uh.

Renae: anything to anybody. I mean, you know, it just doesn’t fit, okay.

Laura: Yeah I think when you, you know, when, when you said like you don’t have to settle I. It also reminds me of when you when you set boundaries and you create space for yourself. Like, this doesn’t mean that you’re saying no to everybody all the time. It doesn’t mean that you are never going to help anyone again. It doesn’t mean you’re not going to care about people. It just means that you’re going to now have, um, it’s going to be more meaningful to you because you’re going to do it from a place where it’s giving you energy instead of stripping energy away.

Renae: Right. So if you’re if your investment in other people comes from a place of health, it is it it gives you energy because it’s in alignment. It’s in alignment with your purpose. It is where um, you it’s it’s not done for like the dopamine or serotonin or any of like the chemical things of like, oh, look at me, I’m so good or this feels good. It is a contentment because I’m functioning in the way that I am meant to function in this moment.

Laura: Yes, yes.

Renae: Right. And like in in yoga, I think when we think about those times where, um, you, you’ve you’ve done the warm up and the prep work and the breathwork and, um, you’re invited into a pose and you’re like, oh, yeah, this is like, this feels so good because this is exactly where I need to be. And I’m not pushing past my boundary. I’ve set my my body and brain have explained to me where my boundary is, and I’m right at the edge of where I need to be. And it feels good. It feels right, it’s aligned. And we looking for that same piece would we’re able to help people. Um, and we then we can do it without the resentment. And so I think coming down to the, um, you know, boundaries are what we set for ourselves. Requests are what we make of other people.

Laura: Yes.

Renae: And they may say no. And how do we get to a point where we’re okay with their no, because we if we need to be okay with their known because we want them to be okay with our no too.

Laura: Right. So if you want to explore boundaries this week, we have a, um, a download for you. Or you can check out the entire workbook for the good helper part. And, um, making friends and allies with your good helper. And, uh, we’ll link that for you.

Renae: Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Laura. It’s so fun to to have this conversation with you and to to learn from you and your experience. And, um, thanks for being here.

Laura: Likewise. Thank you for having me.

Renae: Thanks.