When Worry Thinks It’s Wisdom

Renae: Well, howdy. Hey, Laura. I don’t know why I started like that, but. Hello?

Laura: Welcome to Texas for our podcast.

Renae: Oh my goodness. Um, yeah. So we’re we’re starting our three week series talking about, um, the warrior and, um, I don’t know, I might have had some stuff going on in life lately that I might have been worried about. So this is probably pretty good timing. Um, do you want to, do you want to kick us off with, uh, where you’re going to take us today?

Laura: Well, yeah, sure. I think this week we’re just going to be talking about like, where do we see the warrior in our own lives? And, you know, it’s funny to me when I, I keep as we’re preparing material for this, I keep seeing it. I keep reading it in my mind as warrior. So like your inner warrior. And I think sometimes the warrior thinks it is the inner warrior. So that’ll be a fun place to explore. But when you, when you think about, you know, your inner warrior, what does come up for you? Like does, does that, is that something that you see yourself as someone that is anxious, someone that worries like, talk about that.

Renae: Well. And so this is cool too because, um, I would separate anxiety and worry into two different categories.

Laura: Yeah.

Renae: So for me, worry is where I’m actively, um, turning something over in my, in my mind, um, I probably have nervous system activation. Um, it’s gone past concern and it’s now, um, something I’m, I’m actively worried about that I’ve, that I’m trying to find a solution. And so I’m turning it over and over and over in my mind. Whereas to me, anxiety is, is a nervous system activation that may not have anything to do with the logical process.

Laura: Right. It’s

Renae: So

Laura: to

Renae: worrier

Laura: me

Renae: has

Laura: like.

Renae: an actual.

Laura: Yeah. To me, the warrior is like actively moving, doing, doing. And anxiety in my mind is like a more of a program that kind of runs in the background.

Renae: Yeah. And I think that there’s, um, to, to me, anxiety is something that’s actually, um, Easier in some ways to address. Just because I you know, I have so many coping strategies for it versus worrying is where I, um, I will pick a, you know, pick up the problem apart and try to find a solution. And so it’s interesting because when I was younger, it seemed like I could, I could do that a lot more. I don’t know if my, my problems have gotten more complex as I’ve gotten older. Um, but I get to a certain part where I’m, I have to say, like, I, I don’t know that I can solve this. And so now I’m wasting a lot of energy right now I need to step away.

Laura: Yeah, I find a similar thing happens to me as far as just like the energetic expenditure. I would not count myself as someone that is that worries that much. Now, I probably will have an exception to that when it comes to my kids, because the scope of things that can happen to your children is just you. You can’t even think about it, right? It will. It will send me into a tailspin, but I do still worry about them a little bit. And I have to actively coach myself to say, you know what? It’s not that energy is not going to be helpful to anyone. And it’s in fact not helpful to me. So I have to let that go a little bit. So I think that I can, um, talk myself down most of the time by just thinking about that energy expenditure and thinking about like, what could I do instead of just sitting and worrying, um, to, you know, fix a problem. Um, and I kind of have a suspicion that you’re, you’re similar to me. Right. Where it’s harder for us to just sit in. We’re not necessarily frees people. We’re more fight people, you know, like taking some action. So, um, yeah, the worry to me doesn’t always happen.

Renae: Yeah, I think of it as, um. You know, as I’m sitting here like parsing it out in my head that the, um, I don’t want to worry about something unless I can do something about it.

Laura: Um, it’s almost

Renae: I

Laura: like motivation.

Renae: think that’s, yeah. I mean, to a certain point. Yeah. It’s like, um, I, and I think it does come a little bit too with, you know, a little bit of later life experience of realizing that, um, You know, problems are complex and things take time and that, um, we can’t always do things in a vacuum and we, we need other resources or other inputs. And so, um, it’s, it doesn’t serve us to just try to force it, um, and, and solve the problem immediately. Um,

Laura: Yeah.

Renae: you know, I think that that’s part of it.

Laura: Yeah. True. I have a good friend who is definitely a warrior, and, um, he would describe it more as like, he’s always trying to, to look ahead to figure out what’s going to happen to, you know, plan for every single possible scenario. And, um, I think he probably wouldn’t describe that as anxiety either. It’s more of just like everything has to be in place so that I can feel safe moving forward, I think is kind of like the bottom line thinking there. Um, and it’s interesting to me to watch him navigate stuff. Um, whereas sometimes I think I should like what you were just saying, like I need to stop and assess before I take action. Um, he needs someone to say, you can go ahead and take action because you can’t plan for every single scenario.

Renae: Oh, that’s super interesting. Yeah. I hadn’t thought of it kind of in that way. Um, I, you know, I do notice a little bit of that in my, in my husband that he, um, likes to, to collect the data, um, and, and then make a decision about things. Um, and I, I, I frustrate him because sometimes it looks like I’m making a snap decision, but it’s just because I’ve already done a lot of thinking about it. Um, a lot of evaluation. And I also have a different memory than him. So that’s another thing too, is that, um, my, my brain has collected a lot of data and evidence about patterns and how things go and what has worked before and what doesn’t. And then it comes together with like my, my intuition. And that’s kind of where I’m making my decision is based on, you know, does my gut tell me that this is going to turn out quite the same way, but it goes pretty quick. And so it looks like a snap action or a snap decision, but there’s usually thought around it. And if I don’t have the energy to spend the time thinking about it, I generally will choose to, you know, schedule it for another time.

Laura: Yeah, yeah. Smart. Um, have you had some, some situations where like you weren’t prepared for something and then you like worried about that thing happening again, you know, like talk about any experience you’ve had like that.

Renae: Yeah. Um, I once had, um, um, an interview where someone asked me a really good question. This was back in two thousand and six, and he said, uh, what could I do to ruin your day? Um, what, what is, what is what? Describe how I could absolutely ruin your work day. And I said, oh, I didn’t even have to think about it. I’m like, I’m show up. You tell me I’m late for a meeting that you didn’t give me an agenda for. There were people are waiting for answers from me. That right there. Just like pit of, of, you know, like, like that is the worst ever. Um, and, and I think part of it is that, um, when you do plan ahead, when you do think of the scenarios, um, you do become kind of like that reliable person and

Laura: Yeah.

Renae: you, you, you, you’ve developed that trust with people and then you have this trust for yourself. Um, but when you don’t have data and you don’t have information, um, then it, you do get caught off guard and you do feel like you’re failing yourself and everyone else. And so I definitely have like a protective piece where I won’t take a meeting without an agenda. If people are like, we

Laura: That’s

Renae: need to talk.

Laura: really

Renae: I’m like,

Laura: interesting.

Renae: great, what’s it about?

Laura: That’s so great. You know, I have such a similar story. I so when I first worked at this agency, this was like fifteen years ago. We, um, the first time I was ever presenting work to a client. So we had done like a brochure and this client was coming in and this is in the days, you know, when we’re all in the office. And so I, I had my boss was going to be there and then I was the writer on the project. And then there was the designer on the project. So the three of us were going to be there. And then there were a few people from the client side. And before the meeting started, I said, now how does this go? Like, what should I expect? And she was just like, oh, you know, we just do what we do. I mean, she just kind of blew off the answer. And I, I don’t I know she didn’t do it. Um, you know, on purpose to, to hurt my feelings or something. Like she had just done it so many times that to her, it was just kind of like, you know what we said in this meeting and we showed the client the work. So we get into the meeting and she kind of sets it up and she says, okay, like here, you know, like turn to page one again, back in the days when we still have like these paper ducks. And we’re like, you know, should we open up the deck? And she said, okay, now Laura’s going to read through the copy. And I thought she was joking. And, um, I was just kind of like, okay. And she was like, no, no, uh, go ahead and read through the copy. And I was just like, what? And luckily I was able to just do it, but I just was, I was just so taken off guard. And then I think she felt really bad. And man, I, um, made sure that after that, I always practiced reading the material out loud before we got into a meeting so that I never would, like, feel caught off guard like that again. And so I really resonate with this preparedness for meetings, fear that lingers because I also have this, I think, deep seated fear. I’m sure I’ve mentioned it before of like people not thinking that I’m smart. And, um, and so I always want to make sure that, you know, I’m the person that knows what’s happening in the room. So that is definitely like a kind of an over prepare thing for me. Or when I’m sure this has happened to you, like when you are, um, a member of your team is maybe ill prepared for something and then you have to sit there and like, to me, that’s, that looks like a slow plane crash that you just can’t stop. Lives are being lost and you’re just sitting there being like, please stop talking. Waiting until you can jump in and, and make sure that the client knows what that someone here knows what’s happening.

Renae: Yeah, I, yeah, I do think there’s a, um, I’m thinking back to when I was supervising interns and, you know, they’re either there for like three months, six months or nine months and Have different levels of time that they’re spending. And, um, I took seventy five interns through a field supervision program with lots of different colleges, lots of different degree programs. And it was really kind of tailored each cohort to what that particular person needed from the internship. But we spent a lot of time preparing them for interactions. Like there was like twenty hours of trauma informed training before they ever talked to a client. We had we did scenarios, we did role plays, we did everything because we want that felt safety. And so I think there is that, that, um, that element of I, I, if I’m the in-charge adult, I want to create the environment where someone who is there, whose warrior is really strong. Um, knows there’s a safety net. And, um, I remember one of the interns, we were doing this live event, which we had not really done before. And it was, it was during the pandemic and it was online and it was very cool. I still offer this sometimes for people. And, um, each of the interns was responsible for developing a twenty five to thirty minute session of around some level of wellness exercise. Um, what or, or creative expression or anything to help people connect with, with themselves in this time where we were so isolated and one of the interns was like, I’m really, really scared. I’m really, really scared. And I said, okay, this is awesome. Good job. Do it. Scared. And she was, she told me later, she was like, I was so mad at you. And then she goes. And then I did it. And I was like, I can do these things. And I said, well, because I got your back, right? Like I was right there with you. I’m there supporting you. I will step in if need be, but you got this and here’s your safety net. And she wrote that up in her in her exit interview that that was like, the biggest thing she ever learned is that she can be worried about something and still move forward. And I think

Laura: Yeah.

Renae: that that like that same kind of kindness we can provide for ourselves sometimes if we’re understanding if the difference between it being worry or anxiety, or even if it’s a mix of, of both.

Laura: Yeah. And when you think I, I think that that’s such a great metaphor for like, when we think about our internal warrior, like the internal warrior is trying to do what you’re saying, like create a safety net so that so that when you do things, you won’t look foolish. You you won’t make mistakes, that things will go as planned, that you know, that you can expect the best. And then I think that, that if you leave it there, then that can spiral out of control so that you never make any moves. But then I think what the healthy thing to do is when you start to talk with your inner warrior, it’s just like, or here I said, warrior, warrior,

Renae: You did.

Laura: your inner warrior, um, can become the way that you were able to coach this employee to be like, okay, we’ve done all we’ve done what we can do. We’ve done all the planning and the rehearsal, and now you just got to go perform.

Renae: And I think that’s, that’s actually a, um, I you’re hitting on something. I think that’s really important. Um, is this rehearsal, this practice piece, You know, having having spent so much time in performing arts and, um, I know from the outside sometimes it looks like performers just get up and wing it and do their thing. And it’s not unlike that. Um, when I was talking about with my husband before where the decision looks like it’s really quick, but it’s actually spent a lot of time already thinking about it. Like there’s, there’s been so many. Scenarios and plans and ideas that have gone through. And the same thing when you’re performing is you’re, you’re, you’re rehearsing, you’re rehearsing, you’re rehearsing, you’re working your technique, you’re working your technique, you’re working your technique, and then you get up and it is so much muscle memory, you stop thinking about it and you just inhabit it.

Laura: Mhm.

Renae: And there’s a piece to that that I think is important. I when you were talking about the, um, workplace situation where you were asked to read the copy, I immediately flashed back to. In junior high and in. And even in high school because it wasn’t as bad in elementary school. But then again, we didn’t have computers back in our day. We had actual textbooks and we sat there and the teacher would say, all right, we’re going to read out loud. And you would have a, you know, everyone would get a paragraph and it would go through the classroom, down the seats in order. And so many of us were not even listening to what anyone else said. We had counted the paragraphs to see which one was going to be ours. And we were reading it over and over and over again and, and pronouncing things in our head so that when it got to us, we did not look like a fool.

Laura: Yes, I remember that that happened in my classroom as well.

Renae: I think it happened for our age group. I think it happened for everybody. And

Laura: Right?

Renae: there’s that. And so if looking at the core of that, there’s it’s like whether it’s shame, whether it’s, you know, feeling embarrassed, whether it’s feeling foolish, that part of what this, this warrior, this preparer is, is doing is, um, trying to make sure that we aren’t othered or separate or

Laura: Mhm.

Renae: that we don’t belong because we don’t know what we’re supposed to do or what’s supposed to happen next. And there’s this idea that, um, that it almost feels like when we’re really in that, that, that warrior part is really strong. It’s the, everyone else knows the answer or what to do and I don’t.

Laura: Yeah, yeah. So this week, as people are starting to think about their inner warrior and all those implications, what do you think would be a good thing for them to do as like a first step to just start noticing?

Renae: Um, I think that the question I ask myself is. Is this is this feeling that’s coming up? Well, let’s let me back up. Maybe it is the what? Where are you noticing it in your body when the the worry starts is that that you notice your jaws tension tension tense, tensing tensing. Good job parsing that, Renae, um, you’re just dancing. Or your shoulders are coming up to protect your throat or your, your, you know, you feel a pit in your stomach or your hands start to sweat or you blink a lot or all of a sudden your mouth feels dry. Just starting to notice where it’s coming up physically for you. When you have something that you’re starting to worry about. And I think that, um, if, if we can start to pick up those cues, it does give you a little bit of buffer for pausing and saying, okay, something’s coming up. And, and then this is my cue to get curious. This is my cue to get curious about what’s going on.

Laura: Yeah, yeah. I think that is a is a great approach and you know, like to get curious and also just to not try to fix it. And at this stage of the game, just to say, oh she’s worrying. MM. Isn’t that interesting?

Renae: Yeah. And then what? What’s, um. And then I think the next piece of it comes into, um, you know, asking yourself what, what, what is this going to, how is this going to serve me right now? Can this serve me right now? Um, can I, can I pause? Can I pause? And um, if you can’t pause and you’ve already gone to that spiral or anxiety or the mix of the two, um, then that tells you, you know, I might need some other supports or other plans or Strategies. But if you can pause it, like that’s a really great skill actually. Um, to be able to schedule when you’re going to worry. There’s, um, I know we referred to her quite often, but, um, the therapy in a nutshell, um, gal does a really good job talking about scheduling your worry for another time. It’s not that you’re ignoring it, it’s that you’re saying there’s a time and right now it’s going to derail me. Um, and I’m going to spend energy I don’t have on it. And so I’m going to wait until I have time to actually address this.

Laura: Yeah, yeah. So if you want to go ahead and start making a connection with your inner worrier this week, we have a micro journey for you. Um, that starts to dig into this. And in the next episode, we’ll start digging into kind of once you have identified that once you’re able to take the pause, maybe what to do next. What happens then?

Renae: Absolutely. And in the meantime, um, we want you to know that, you know, if you do worry, there’s not anything wrong with you. Um, it’s not, it’s not a, this is not a failure, not in all of these things, in these parts that we’ve been talking about. Um, this is just part of how our advanced coping strategies have been developed. And we’re figuring out how do we help, help them to help us. Um, and we become an ally instead of, um, something that makes us feel a way about ourselves. So,

Laura: Right, right.

Renae: um,

Laura: They’re an ally, not an obstacle.

Renae: absolutely. Oh, she said it so much better, everybody. Good job Laura.

Laura: I’m a writer, guys.

Renae: And speaking of writing, um, we’ve got our, um, companion journey, um, for this series that’s available to for purchase along with the, the free, uh, micro journey download. So whether you’re, uh, going through the, the three week series or you’re downloading all of the micro journeys together, or you take your really deep dive in that twenty one day journey. Um, we welcome your participation as you journey through this. So thanks so much, Laura, and for bringing your wisdom and your lived experience and your stories. So glad to have you in this, um, conversation.

Laura: Likewise. Great to be here. See you next time. All right.