Outcomes Aren’t Yours: Write the Story Anyway

Renae: Well, um, last time we we met, you said you wanted to talk about. I don’t know if today’s the day, but, uh, listening for God or hearing God, so I don’t know if that’s something you want to get into.

Laura: Yeah, well, I was just curious about I have I’ve had some conversations with some other friends recently where like, they in this, you know, they’re in a similar state where they are not doing what exactly what they want, but they’re not really sure what this next thing is. And then they just feel like a calling to do something else that feels kind of crazy and doesn’t, you know, make tons of sense. So I have one friend who he’s a graphic designer, and he owned he owned an agency. And it was just I mean, like, like you were saying, it’s just, you know, killing his soul. And so he sold the agency and is doing design work for people, but knows that’s not what he wants to do and just feels kind of drained by it and has this idea that he wants to start a group for, like, burned out creatives and and help them, you know, find some of their creativity. And and then even though he feels like he’s kind of unqualified to do that, he doesn’t know really what it is. And then I have felt a similar, um, situation lately where I have been kind of on this quest for such a long time to figure out, like, what do I want to do? How can I make this online business work? And I just feel like it never really works out the way that I want it to, and I have trouble being consistent on it. And then I finally just started really meditating a lot again lately. And I just have this voice that’s like, you need to be writing stories. And I have all I have written that off for the longest time because it feels like it’s too hard. It feels like I don’t know how to do it. It feels like something that you’re gonna laugh when I say this. It feels like something that can’t be monetized. Like, that’s never going to make any money. That is a waste of your time. And so I’ve had all of these, all of those arguments against just writing stories that I want to write and, and even to the point where, like, when I even start writing, just like, oh, well, you should be doing creative nonfiction because people like when you do that. But I don’t really love writing that. And, um, so I just had this, I don’t know, just a kind of a clear I’ve been meditating on, like, surrender and like, what do I need to be doing? What do I need to be doing to move forward in whatever? I don’t even want to call it a purpose, but so that I’m not still floundering. Like, I feel like I’m floundering for a long time. And that was just like the really clear answer. And and it was almost like it almost felt like a deal, like just get up and write stories every day for like thirty minutes to an hour and then do whatever else you want to do. And as long as you are getting that time in and doing those reps, then that is that’s the path right now. So that all has been happening with me. And then you had said something in our last conversation about like, well, God told me really clearly that I wasn’t meant to be. I think what the example you were using was like, you weren’t meant to lead a congregation in a traditional church setting or something similar. And so then that struck me like, oh, that’s interesting. I wonder what’s the story behind that? So that’s what inspired me to bring it up.

Renae: Yeah, yeah. Um, well, I love that you’re that you’re exploring this, um, in in the what, you know, the, the surrender kind of mentality. Because I think that that’s that’s really helpful. Um, in so many ways, it’s part of, as you and I know, it’s part of the acceptance piece of of yoga, of not trying to force of not trying to make something happen. And so from, from my philosophy theology side of things that that lines up with the, the, the, my belief that, um, God is responsible for outcomes. I am not I am responsible for showing up and being obedient. And when I say obedient, I’m not talking about a punitive American traditional family version of obedient. It is a it is an alignment. And I think that when, when we, um, when we have this, this thing that’s like our own ambition that when we look, because we’ve talked before about the things that drive us and so like, what are our drivers? And if we’re if we’re driven by an ambition that is to meet someone else’s need or get the approval of someone else outside of us, we’re going to step into all sorts of things that will meet that one need. But also ultimately, we’re working against ourselves. And so you you can I’m almost envision it like you’re like you’re leaning forward and pushing your way against the wind. That’s that’s blowing a different direction because that’s not the direction you’re meant to go. And it’s exhausting because it’s not just that you’re like walking forward, it’s that you’re leaning so you’re out of alignment. And then also there’s this force against you and you’re making it happen. But at the end of the day, what? What? You’re exhausted. You’re exhausted, and your body is, is is pushed forward. And the surrender piece of it is the okay, I’m I’m still making a choice to go a direction, but I’m also going to pay attention to where where where where where does it feel right for me to to lengthen my spine and breathe in and be that I don’t feel like I’m constantly pushing against not I’m not talking about like when we’re pushing against corruption or injustice or those types of things like that is hard work, but that’s different. That’s not soul death. Like there’s a, there’s a different, um, it’s hard, but it is. It is not. Um. It’s not death. I don’t know how to explain that. I’ve gotta think about how to. There’s a there. Because you’re fighting for life. When you’re fighting against injustice, it’s life giving. And so I think that that’s part of the litmus test for me is, you know, how do I know if something’s in the spirit of good or of truth or of God or of whatever is, is this life giving or is it not?

Laura: Yeah. Is it giving you energy instead of sucking it out of you?

Renae: And and is it giving life in the world, right. Like, is it is it edifying someone else? Is it is it creating a pathway for people to grow? Is it creating a pathway for people to see things, or me to see things in a way that brings hope? Because the opposite of hope is is despair, and despair is is it will kill you literally. So the I think that the the surrender piece of it in that that alignment. Um, I hear that you don’t want to use the word purpose. Super interesting. I’d love to hear more about that. Um, but but I think it’s the it’s the alignment piece that, um, we function well when we are aligned, you know, even on a from a physical, if you looking at it from a mechanical point of view, if you have a machine, a car that where parts are out of alignment, you can make the car go, but at a cost. It’s going to ruin your engine or ruin parts because they’re going to wear against each other, and then eventually they’re going to break down and you’ll have to do a lot of repair. And so that alignment piece like again, you can make it happen. You can make it work. You can drive your car without enough oil in it for a while. It’s not a great idea. There is a cost,

Laura: It’s not going to end well.

Renae: right? And so it is. At what cost? And I think about you. Um, the the thing of the monetized I, I very clearly remember and I’m going to say I’m going to tell this story and I’m going to ask people to withhold judgment for my family of origin. This is not if there is. This is not something to judge them on. It’s just to understand, um, my own journey is that, um, every summer we would be sent around the country to different relative’s house because there was no child care. It was a different time. And I remember taking the weekly phone call from my parents who were enrolling me in my eighth grade classes. Um, because I was not there to do so. And so that was when electives started to be introduced. And the question was what electives do you want? And I was like, oh yeah, I want choir, I want band, I want theatre, I want all that. But the the question that, well, actually that wasn’t the question. The question was I was asked, what do you want to do when you grow up? I said, oh, I want to act and sing for the rest of my life. Like super quick. That was it. That was what I wanted to do. And the response was, you know, me thinking that I would be put into to to band because I played an instrument too, and choir and theatre and all that. The response was, you’ll never make any money at that. Pick something else. And that was the very, very, very clear message throughout the rest of my educational. Experience. Um, whenever checking in with that, with that group of people is. You’ll never make any money off that. Pick something else.

Laura: I don’t even think that’s a wild answer. You know, like, I feel like that’s so common a thing. And I feel like even I mean, because I can I can see that in some parts of my family too. And it’s it’s more it comes from a purer place. I think sometimes where it’s just like, well, we don’t want you to be poor for the rest of your life. Like it’s not even somebody trying to crush your dreams. Um, it’s what what they also think is was the right thing to do, right?

Renae: Absolutely. But the truth is

Laura: But extremely pervasive as a story.

Renae: right. And and so that, you know, it sets up this, like, clear, clear value of what success is. Which brings us back to that question of what is success? And so it said, oh no, the things that that, that light you up, that bring you delight where you feel aligned in the most alive, not because people are looking at you, but because that’s actually what you are meant to do at this time. Um, because you you feel alive. Not high, not the high of like there’s a difference. There’s like a contentment that comes with it that is like. Yes. Like this is exactly. It is done with ease. It is done with, um, it’s just right. It just is right.

Laura: There’s a satisfaction in doing that thing.

Renae: Yep, yep.

Renae: It’s a contentment, um, and not just a contentment, but, um, and so the later in life, I figured out that part of what I was feeling, and I’m going to use a personification of God in this description is that I could feel God’s delight shining down on me, because in that moment it was like, yep, that’s what I made you to do. That is exactly right. And there are times in my life that I feel that so clearly, and then there are times that it is like. That very kind parents like. Yeah, that was an interesting choice she made. Like I can’t I, I don’t think yeah I like good good job trying a for effort. Um have you figured out that’s not it. Um, and so that is actually what happened when I went to, I went to seminary and, um, and it came from, gosh, I’m really, like, telling some deeper stories today. Um, but I’m going to do it because I’m going to be brave. Um. I was seventeen years old In Missouri. Um, driving a little that little red Nissan Sentra that everybody had with the little boxy edges in, in the early nineties. And I was driving and I heard an audible voice in my head, but an audible voice say, you need to go to seminary. And I’ve, I’ve had, uh, a pretty close relationship and conversations with, with God most of my life about like, the Holy Spirit has been very, um, present in putting guardrails up for me of like, hey, that’s probably not a great idea or this is something you need to move forward in, or those types of things where there’s a like a spiritual check where it’s, uh, I can, I am and you might describe it as, Is, um, an energy check. Right. Um, our young folks today might call it a vibe check. Um, but the, uh. But I heard that, and I said, are you crazy? Women can’t be pastors. Like, literally. This is what I responded. I was like, what are you talking about? This is the women can’t be. Because in my all the traditions that I was exposed to, I’d only ever seen one woman in a pulpit. And I would when I saw that because of how I was raised, I looked around and I said, did everyone else? Can you all see that there’s a woman in the pulpit? Is God gonna send down lightning? What the what? I was like, shocked. I was that was when I was a freshman in high school. And it was like an exchange program between churches. And I was like, what? I’ve never seen this. This is wild.

Laura: Scandalous.

Renae: And It is scandalous. Women are allowed to lead songs. That’s it. Um, and so I said, okay, uh, I, I think you’re wrong. I’m gonna go do my own thing. And I went and did my own thing, and it did not go well. It went really, really poorly. And I kept trying all these things that were like, I’m gonna do this. I’m gonna. I’m gonna be a project manager. I’m gonna be a retail manager. I’m gonna. And I would go back and forth as we talked before, between a support role and a and a leadership role, and I burn out in both of those and then head to the other one, like back just back and forth. And then, um, when I was twenty seven, um, I was in a church parking lot talking to someone and, um, providing safety for them as they were talking about their The oncoming divorce. And I heard again a very clear voice in my head that said, are you ready for seminary yet? And I just went, yeah, I’m really tired of fighting. I’m really tired of fighting. So then I went through a whole discernment process where I’m like, I want, you know, I, I, I’d already had therapy, I’d been screened. I don’t have schizophrenia. I don’t have any. Like, these are not like intrusive thought voices. I went through a whole discernment process with a bunch of different people who all confirmed that, yes, what they had seen in me is that that I have a a vocational ministry avocation for ministry. That was probably also a vocation. And so then I pursued and I thought I was going to become a worship pastor and went to school for seven and a half years because I was working full time. Our girls also moved in during that time. Um, and partway through seminary when the girls moved in and all of a sudden trauma was right up in my face and my own trauma, my own trauma history, my own cptsd and everything stopped me a lot. I still went to school, but everything changed. Um, and I it was when I started to realize that the the big C church in general. This was in the, the mid two thousand or the end of the two. You know, twenty ten is in around that time, um, was not was not actually a safe place for a lot of people, it certainly wasn’t. It certainly wasn’t a safe place for my family a lot of the time. It wasn’t a safe place for me. A lot of the time, um, here I am, that this person who’s who’s a truth teller, who’s passionate, who’s compassionate, who’s a challenger, who’s an eight, and I’m a woman. And that does not necessarily fly really well in a church setting. And so, um, but I kept I kept just going through the program and part of the, the program, the Master of Divinity program I did had two internships and one was as a chaplain, um, in, in a hospital setting, uh, like a is it a clinical practice setting? And then the other was a nine month internship and a church in a parish setting, and I was like, I’ve been serving in churches for twenty years. This is going to be a walk in the park. I’ve been on staff at churches and it was, oh, maybe like three months in. And I just was like, oh dear, I can’t I this would, this would kill me like this, to try to force myself into a box that was acceptable for me to show up in would, would actually not be aligned with how I had been designed because I am supposed to challenge, I am supposed to question, I am supposed to push back. I am supposed to create space for people. I am supposed to be loud. And that was not what was available to me in that setting. Conversely, when I was as a chaplain, um, while I wasn’t necessarily allowed, although other times I was, that was one of my favorite jobs, and it was one of the it’s going to sound terrible. It’s one of the easiest jobs I had. And I was in a pediatric setting, and I was with families with, um, when they found out that their child had died or had a terminal illness or things weren’t going well. And it was there was such an ease to it, I thought something might be wrong with me. Like I went to my supervisor and I’m like, this, this job is is not hard. Everyone says it’s really hard. It’s not hard. Is there something wrong with me? He’s like, ah, it’s just what you’re how you’re designed. Right. And so there’s this. And then on those chaplaincy skills have I’ve taken those in all sorts of spaces to create safety for people just to, to mourn, to grieve, to celebrate, to ponder, to to be angry, to be questioning, to be frustrated and say, yeah, it’s great. I’m right here with you. I’m holding that space. Right? So that’s an alignment for me. And I bring that to my business, not as a as a, um, spiritual leader, but as a person who creates those sacred spaces. And when I, when I do that, whether I’m talking one on one with the person, whether I’m writing an email or whether I’m in front of a huge group of people, uh, talking about mental health fundamentals or, or or emotional intelligence or whatever thing happens to be or burnout or, um, I’m creating that same space. And when I’m done in that and I walk to my car and it’s like, I can I can feel God going, yeah, that’s what I need you to do, right? Because it’s not hard. So I’ve talked a whole lot about my storytelling on that. I hope that answers some of your questions.

Laura: Yeah. No, it’s a really interesting story. And I think it’s funny how, you know, like, I feel like there’s a lot of similar experiences where people are just like, you’re you feel like you should you want to do a thing, and then it’s just like, that’s not a real thing. And so you don’t. And then you feel wrong. Like it’s not it’s it’s not what is giving you life. So yeah I and it’s similar to um to my, my just the whole idea of like steering a person towards, you know, making money or whatever. My son has he went to school and studied, um, he was a piano major. And I remember my mom being like, you’re really going to let him be a piano major? And it saying it in the best with the best of intentions, like, you know, being worried for him as a, as a, you know, poor musician or whatever. And I said, well, and I have had the experience where I went to, I didn’t really know what I wanted to do when I went to school. like, I just, I when I went to school, I just really wanted to be like my dad because he was kind of, like the coolest person I knew. So I signed up to be a doctor because that’s what he did. And then I got there and I was just kind of like, I, this isn’t what I want to do. But then I didn’t know what I did want to do because I just spent so much time with this assumption in my head that that’s that is what I wanted to do. So I kind of just like into this degree of human resources management. And then I did human resources for a while. And then like five or ten years later, um, went into a career as a, as a writer. And so I had a personal experience that I could draw on that was just like, you know, like if you have a degree, you can that gives you an advantage and then you can kind of make your own path from there. And so that’s why I felt like it. I think that that was a good experience for me to have had, because then I could be like, well, he’s going to get a degree, so it’s fine. And they I mean you know he got a scholarship. So like he’s getting basically this free degree. So let’s just let him do it. And now he, um, he just has he just graduated this past spring with a master’s degree in historical keyboard, which is even more niche and crazy. But he’s he’s just so happy. And and people always say, like, what is he gonna do with that? And I said, well, he’s gonna do what he loves doing, which might be like six jobs at once, you know, performing and playing in churches and offering lessons. And hopefully, maybe someday he’d like to be a professor. I mean, like, hopefully he would get a job that he would enjoy at being a professor. Um, but like, even me, like, just now saying like, that would be a good job because he would have health insurance and a steady paycheck. Um, because you I mean, we do know that there is practicality that we have to think of, like, we can’t just not, um, make money like we have. So, you know, we there does have to be a base level of living. But anyway, he is as happy as he can be, you know, and he’s and I’m and I can’t imagine having told him to do to pick a different major or to, you know what I mean. Like, I just can’t even fathom a world where we would have not let him do that because, I don’t know, he’s just really happy with what he’s pursuing right now. And what do you want for your kids more than for them to be satisfied and happy with what they’re doing, you know?

Renae: Yeah. There is a piece of that that I think, um. Because I, you know, if you would look at if you would look at what I, the choices I’ve made with my business on paper, like you’re mentioning the people at the beginning of our conversation where on paper it does not make sense. And, and I’ve had this conversation with my, like my advisory board members for, for trauma wise and, and other other conversations where I’m like, I am fully aware that it does not make sense. And yet right now, I, I am choosing between what is what is right. Like there is a it’s it’s not what is right by other people’s standards. And there is a, um, you know, if I’m if I’m allowed to talk about Scripture because I’ve already talked about God quite a bit today. Um, but there is a whole passage that talks about that, you know, God’s ways look crazy to the world. And I think that that’s a piece of it is. And then there’s also James one twenty seven which says true religion. Is this the meaning of, um, meeting orphans and widows in their distress? And that’s where people usually stop. But there’s a second part of the verse that says, and not becoming conformed to the patterns of the world. And I think that when we talk about what how God would like us to practice our belief in our faith and our trust in, in goodness and in love and in hope and in peace, it means that we are we are not doing what would be traditional. We are not doing the things that would be deemed a success by folks who worship power and money and influence. Um, and I, you know, if anybody who worships power, money and influence is listening to this podcast, first of all, welcome. Um, but also you’re probably not here. So this is.

Laura: Well, you know, I do think that sometimes it’s not that black and white, you know what I mean? Like you, you don’t think to yourself, I worship power, money and influence. But when you have those things, it doesn’t feel bad on the surface, you know?

Renae: It doesn’t feel bad.

Laura: So it’s kind of insidious, right? To be like, how much of this am I? How much of what I am really, deeply called to do? Am I trading for those things? But then I would also say sometimes, I mean, I think it’s it’s that really nuanced difference between fighting for something that’s giving you energy versus fighting against something that’s draining your energy. Like, I think sometimes when you’re pursuing the work that really lights you up, you it does sometimes come with power, money and influence. But maybe the difference is you’re not worshipping those things.

Renae: Right, right. That’s it’s a, it’s an outcome. It’s not an objective.

Laura: Yeah. Yes, yes. I like that.

Renae: So that’s, I think that’s the right. Like our what’s the objective. My, my. And that’s when you know we talk about you and I’ve been through the same um training about you know figuring out what your niche statement is. And your niche statement is not about the people that you’re serving, but it is about how it is that you’re doing what you’re doing. I mean, the people that you’re serving is in there, but it’s the, um, and and notice I use the word serving, right. And so that just tells you right there There’s a lens that that I don’t do like I don’t do what I do because I think it’s going to make me lots of money. I can see how it could. But that’s not why I do what I do. I do what I do because when I don’t do what I’m supposed to do, it’s incredibly painful.

Laura: Yeah. and I can I’ll further that point by saying that if the only motivator of what you’re doing is money, then you know, I would take that dumb job I don’t want and you would be taking some dumb job you don’t want. And if that was really fulfilling, then we’d be happy in those jobs, you know? But it’s not. And so we have come to a place where we’re willing to say, you know, for, for right now and, and maybe forever, I am okay not being, you know, super rich because I’m happy in what I’m doing. And happiness has, has a higher value than money.

Renae: And and I just want to like this is going to sound so egotistical. So again, those of you who haven’t heard this part of me before. Welcome. Um, I, I literally could be a millionaire if I wanted to be a millionaire. I am, I’m freaking smart, I know stuff I know how to make, I know how to make money. I know how to do all those things. And it would go against every principle I hold about bringing out the best in humanity. I would have to. I would have to just steamroll over humanity to do it, which a lot of people do. And it is so antithetical to who I am that I, I literally am choosing not to be a millionaire because I could I really I mean it and there’s no there’s all sorts of incredibly unethical things that I could do to make money very quick. Um, that would be legal, but not unethical. Let’s be very clear. Right.

Laura: Yeah. And it would have such a high cost to your Or to your person.

Renae: Mhm. Mhm. Yeah. So it’s uh I um I interestingly enough what you described for your friend who is trying to create this space is the same thing. I heard you almost a year ago talking about creating for people to.

Laura: We actually kind of it was like it’s very weirdly synergistic where we this is a person I’ve known for a long time. We used to work together and, um, and we it was a person that I, he and I had just kind of kept in touch, kind of casually, like every year we would have lunch maybe twice a year, but, you know, no more than twice. And then, um, maybe back in, I don’t know, January of this year or something. We got together for our annual lunch, and we were both just like, I want to do this thing. I’m I’m thinking about this thing I’m feeling in these ways. And, and like a lot of the types of things that I was exploring and listening to at the time he was into, and this is a person like that, I would have never expected to have this kind of, um, overlap with. And we were just like, wait a minute, you are interested in human design? Like, wait a minute. Like you are interested in how God is talking to you. Like what? Like, we had never had that kind of conversation before. And so it was very weirdly, um, coincidental. And then. Yeah. So he has continued to pursue that as a thing. And, I don’t know, I, I do feel like there’s, I, I don’t know, I guess this is a part where it’s a messy middle for me. Like if I was to do work like that, I feel like I would enjoy it. Um, if I was to, you know, and I’m still actively, like, pursuing my yoga, I guess. I guess what I’m saying is that, um. Gosh, you’re gonna want to cut this part out. Me hemming and hawing, but the I think where I landed with the whole, like, helping people through burnout is to put more of a yoga lens on it and, and build out my community. So when I, when I, um, I have this, this draw to be creating stories and it still feels really hard to me and it still feels like something that I’m making myself do. And every day, like, this is the third week of me getting up and doing. I’m looking at my calendar because I write like a w every day that I do it, and I can see that it feels, as you’re saying before, like it feels satisfying. It feels like it was work that was worth it. And I know that I just have like a really deep feeling that it’s going to get easier the more that I. Which sounds like such a simple concept. Of course, it’s going to get easier the more I practice it, but to me, what’s been really interesting about just this whole thing is that I didn’t realize how difficult it would be to. To surrender.

Renae: Mhm.

Laura: Right.

Renae: Mhm.

Laura: Like how a that it’s a crazy talk that I would write a story. I don’t even know if it’s a book or a screenplay. Like that’s where we are and be the just. It’s it doesn’t feel like, wow, every day. I can’t wait to get up and write this story now. Like once I get into it, I’m just kind of like, oh, yeah, I can see how that’s working. But, um, like, those two things don’t feel easy in the way that you want a surrender to be like, okay, everything’s great now. Like, that’s what I was kind of wanting. And, um, and also just, I don’t feel like I’m a person that has ever I’ve already done a lot of things that are not traditional, and I, I. I think that is an indication of how deep seated like your stories and your programming is, that you don’t even realize, even when you feel like you’re kind of doing whatever you want to. Um, and you know what I say, you know what I mean when I say doing whatever you want to, like. Like not following the plan of two point five children in a corporate nine to five. Um, even when it feels like you’re already being completely independent, you’re still influenced by some stories. So it’s really interesting to me, and I’ll be letting you know when it gets real easy.

Renae: And and I think like so what you’re describing is, you know, being a person who’s developed their craft, their artistic craft in so many different ways. Is that what you’re talking about right now? It’s the it’s the technical, like you’re you’re you um, I don’t know if you ever ran, but it’s, you’re doing your, your couch to five K training right now where you’re getting up off the couch for the first time and you’re like, oh, yeah, I can’t actually like, I’m not enjoying this yet. Like, this is not fun yet. Um, I feel good when I’m done because I’ve moved. I am finding more capacity. I’m building up lung capacity and stamina and all those things. But this is not yet fun. And then there’s this moment when you’re like, oh, yeah, this is actually fun. This actually feels good. And and that is going to feel different for every person, right? Because everybody’s composition is different. But that’s I that’s how I liken it. There will be a moment where I think the ease comes, which is different than easy. It’s the the ease in which you enter into it and that it just it just feels right. And I was thinking about, um, I can’t remember. There’s a, there’s a name for it and I can’t remember what it is, but it’s when you’re with someone that you have, um, deep trust with, and there’s no pressure to have a conversation or to be animated or to do anything. Just you can just sit in silence with them, whether you’re doing the same thing together or not. And it’s an ease.

Laura: Yeah.

Renae: Right. And when you leave the the interaction, you’re not drained. You mean you you don’t have a high. You’re not like a you’re not. It’s not dopamine in the like a in a chemical high. But it is like this is right. I can be my full authentic self with this person. There is a stillness in me that is just peaceful.

Laura: Right.

Renae: And I feel like when you feel that, that’s when you know you’re in alignment.

Laura: Yeah, yeah. I’m glad you used the couch to five k example, because that really, um, that really gives it such a more, um, it gives me more motivation to keep going on it. Not that I was going to stop, but it, it reminds me of just like my yoga practice. I used to always hate, like building strength and and I don’t know, like it just felt too hard. But then I just kept practicing and kept practicing. And then like, one day I, I realized, oh wait, I am stronger now. I am enjoying this now. Now I have enough momentum to, you know, even maybe take that up a notch. And that was from just showing up on my mat every day. Not not trying to be like, okay, I’m going to learn how to to do a handstand or an arm balance. Like that wasn’t my starting place, even though it became a place that I was interested in going. But it wasn’t for a long time that I could see how I could get there, So I really like that example of like right now I’m just doing the hardest part, which is starting and gaining momentum.

Renae: Mhm. And and remembering too that when we’re building muscle there is a rupture and a repair process that’s happening that we have to actually tear muscle fibers in order for them to build back up. And so there is that’s part of what the pain is. There’s a there’s a you’re you’re building new neural pathways. You’re building new muscle memory. You’re building new capacities. And and that’s part of what the resistance in the, in the pain is because your, your system wants to stay in stasis. It doesn’t want the change. And so even if the change is good, it’s like gonna fight you. And so that’s part of what the hard is, is your systems like, ah, I think we’re gonna die. They’re like, seriously? Calm down. We’re writing. We’re just writing. It’s gonna be fine.

Laura: There’s not a real emergency here.

Renae: So. Oh, good. Good stuff. Laura.

Laura: Yeah.

Renae: We’ll have to do a lot of editing.

Laura: Thanks for sharing all your stories. That’s really fascinating. I mean, I feel like it doesn’t. It’s it’s such a funny thing because I feel like these stories, when you’re telling them about yourself, they don’t really feel that relatable, but they really are. Like, everybody has something that’s hidden in them that they’re ignoring. And if they don’t, they’re really ignoring it real hard.

Renae: Thank you.

Renae: Right, right. Well. And and to to everybody who’s, who’s following along with the journey, I think that I would just I think the other thing I would leave everybody with is, um, be very gentle with yourself. Please extend some compassion around the fact that you that people, uh, I’ve watched eighty year olds change their change what they were doing in their life at eighty years old, or change their perspective or try something new and, and and so like wherever you are in in the journey. If if there is something that feels like it might be life giving to you and the rest of the world. So remember, like I’m I’m saying things that are destructive for other people are not appropriate for life giving things for you. Okay, I’m I’m just drawing a line right there. Um, but there’s something that is that is that is good. That makes that makes good for, um, whether that’s truth or beauty and is edifying for you and others. Like it’s never too late to try it, to try it out. And whatever your version of it is, be, just be curious and open and and wait for does this does this is there a rightness in this? Is this a reflection of of of who I am meant to be in this world? We’re not using the word purpose because Laura doesn’t like it.

Laura: It’s too loaded for me. That’ll be a conversation for next time.

Renae: Uh, any any parting thoughts? Laura?

Laura: No, this is great. Thank you so much for having me, Renae.

Renae: Awesome.