From Survival Brain to Creator Energy: What Your Depth Needs to Come Alive

Renae: yesterday, I didn’t take any meetings. I cleared my, my meetings off my calendar and I just worked on My, uh, workbook. That I thought was going to be planner, but now it’s like very clear that it’s a workbook.

Laura: Oh, nice.

Renae: I’m very excited. I’m feeling very positive about that. And also yesterday I was like, dang, I also am like feeling the, I wish I could just go away and do this for a bit.

Laura: Tell me about it. I identify deeply with that.

Renae: So tell me about how you identify deeply with that.

Laura: Oh, I just, um, have been feeling this sense of urgency, Like, I need to get this done. This needs to move faster. I need, I need to, this needs to be profitable. I need to get this moving. Why am I, why am I not getting anything done? Just like that kind of a loop. And then I, I think we probably talked about it a little bit last week, but I, um, well, maybe we didn’t, I, yeah, I was just so part of the, um, my friend Neil’s group, like he always gives us these journaling questions and I, and it was like, it’s so funny because a lot of it is work that I’ve already done, but now I’m just going, it’s just like, I’m just going to level deeper into it, which I didn’t really realize would be valuable. A lot of times I’m just like, okay, I’ve done this, but because Neil’s asking me to do it, I’ll just do it, you know what I mean? And then I’m like, oh, interesting. So the I, and I’ve been typing my, um, responses like I asked ChatGPT, like, give me these questions once one at a time. And then I just, you know, like journal into ChatGPT and then I’ll ask it to either, you know, like look at my responses over this whole time period or I’ll be like, what are you noticing? And, um, so the questions were around like, okay, at a time when you were burnt out, what was happening? And then at a time when you weren’t what was happening, and then kind of got into some of my questions of today and, and I was sharing like all those feelings of this urgency and just wishing I could like, put everything else on hold. And then I have kind of also been doing that. So then the days that I have to do actual work suck because it’s so much I’m trying to cram into. And um, so anyway, it was basically like, hey, um, you know, you’re, you’re trying to create this thing using the exact same circumstances you said burned you out in the past. And I was like, stop saying true things based on what I’ve told you. So, um, yeah, so I have just it’s been a real, um, a real act of discipline to be like, okay, I’m going to stop working now. I’m going to go take a walk. It’s spring. It’s beautiful. I’m going to do my yoga practice. I’m going to do my art. You know, like those practices that I know. And then to even, um, add insult to injury, what was funny was the, um, so we are doing our studio is our yoga studio is doing the yamas and niyamas this year. So this, as I was doing my research for this one, which is Brahmacharya, which is moderation, it’s like it was like, you know, when you were moderating yourself, like, um, attention, Laura, your workload, you will get knowledge, vigor, valor and energy flow.

Laura: Um.

Laura: I was like, mm, so obvious. Like that also means that when I’m not moderating, I’m getting all the opposite of that. Like I can’t think straight, I feel drained, I feel pressured, I’m like, oh, wow, this is all this is coming at me from all sides, from AI and ancient wisdom.

Renae: Oh, and I think that. I’m talking about our melancholy individualists piece of this. Of course it’s coming from that as well, because it is the what, what circumstances, what containers, what um, environments are going to allow you to have that creative expression, right? Because um, we don’t, we do live lives of practicality that require us to do, to do the other types of work. And so whether it is the. The prosaic of. I have to do laundry and make meals or the prosaic of. I need to make sure I’m paying my bills. Um, and that the. If we’re. If the prosaic needs build up, we were like pulled into survival brain and not into our. We’re not can’t get to our creative brain for these processes. So it requires us to like build that structure in order for us to have this creative space. And I think that what you’re talking about is that same, same thing. Um, whether it’s, whether it’s from like a, um, time management or, or life management or flow management, as well as the, like the awareness of what how am I bringing my depth out? Right. And I think there’s like that connection piece.

Laura: Yeah, yeah, I in my group, I talk a lot about like survivor energy regulated energy and creator energy and like this, like hurrying urgency. That’s like pulling me back into survival energy. And that’s not a place to create from like, it’s powerful and it’s necessary, but it’s powerful and necessary when you need to escape a real life endangering situation. And when that’s not the real situation, just like you’re saying, like you’re in your survival brain and it’s not the most creative place.

Renae: Right? And you and I think too, like the, there’s a part where, Um, I think sometimes we do go to survival brain when we feel stymied about expressing ourselves. I think that piece of the I’ve tried all these different ways to show up. And if I’m not in a container, I’m not in an environment. I’m not in a situation where I get to advocate for myself or express myself or take up space, um, which are all things that, you know, the, the women in our age and stage have experienced in lots of different ways. Um, there is a like that, that, um, default to scarcity and survival. Um, because it, it is, it’s the world becomes a threat to our existence. I know it sounds like it’s not the water and shelter and food. But it is about, you know, quality of life. And it’s it. Life is more than water, shelter and food.

Laura: Yeah, yeah. It’s true that that is so true. And it reminds me of just this whole idea of being women. Um, do you remember a couple of months ago when that whole thing was like, if would you if you’re walking in the woods alone as a woman, would you rather eat a bear or a man? And how, you know, people were saying that they would rather meet a bear. And my husband and I were having this discussion about it, and he was just like, oh, that’s crazy, you know, because I feel like sometimes he feels victimized as a man who is a nice person, you know, like he feels, I don’t want to say victimized, but you know what I mean? Like he takes offense sometimes to people making sweeping generalizations, generalizations, as anyone would about, you know, all men are horrible. But I said, listen, though you don’t understand. Like how anyone at any time, um, can overpower me. You know what I mean? Like fifty percent of the population could overpower me right now. And we. Jokes, like, sometimes we’re, like, kind of playing together and I’ll, like, act like I’m going. To beat him up or wrestle with him. And he can of course, always just like, you know, like. Flip me over, you know, and it’s a game when we’re playing it. But I said to him like, look how easy it is for you to do that. I mean, and I know we’re playing, but like, that’s like real, that’s like survival. Um, that is a thing that is a real threat to us as a woman. People just simply people being stronger. And so I think that that is, it’s real on so many different levels, even when we’re in a safe place or so like you just, it’s just so I guess my point is it’s just so baked into us that you really have to be vigilant about. Um, slipping into it. You know, um, when it’s not necessarily necessary for you at that time.

Renae: Well, and I think it becomes also like some of the narrative of whose responsibility it is for us to be safe. And for so long it’s been, well, it’s your job to stay safe. Versus, oh, maybe it’s the, it’s the community’s job to, to make sure people have safety. Um, and so because of that, that hyper vigilance, there is a, a piece of, I don’t want to attract too much attention or too much of the wrong attention. Yeah, maybe, maybe I can’t, I can’t speak up in some spaces because, um, I might get fired and then I lose my job and I need this income or I can’t I can’t be too powerful because or charismatic or, um, express myself as an attractive person because I might attract the creeps and something bad will happen. Like there’s a whole layer to this that I think, um, especially if for women who are creatives, um, there’s, they’re, they go hand in hand. Right?

Laura: Yeah.

Laura: Yeah, it’s, it’s really interesting. I mean, it’s a really interesting nuance to it because I don’t, you know, like part of me wants to be like, well, if you’re not in an environment where you can do that, then just find a new job. But it’s not that easy, you know, like, I wish it were like, yeah, of course I’m going to quit and not stay in this in this environment. But like I myself have been in a, in a position where I had a boss that, you know, was just not a great person, and I was looking really hard to find something new and still took me nine months to get out of there. So there is this kind of like a line that you have to walk. I went to like, what do you what are your thoughts about that? I mean, as far as like, let’s say you’re stuck in a situation like that where you really, it’s not in your best interest to, um, say what you. I think part of my problem in that was that I did it anyway. So I said too much. Um, which, you know, it turned out to be for the best because I got fired from that job, um, which kind of lit a fire for me to do other things. But, um, I don’t know. What do you think about walking that line?

Renae: Yeah. Um, the, the piece that, um, and I think that people who are not part of the dominant culture and situations that this is real too, right? So people who are, um, if you’re in, in spaces where not everybody looks like you, um, or you’re in places where the way you express yourself is very, very different. Um, there is this, this piece of it too that is, um, that, that plays out here. Um. There’s. It is a fine, it is a fine line and I know that. Now in life, um, I mean, I even had this conversation yesterday with someone who works at a place that I worked at and I said, oh, man, the things you’re telling me makes me miss working there. And she said, to be very clear, all of the problems that you had with what was going on are still here.

Laura: You might not want to go back. Right?

Laura: Thank you.

Renae: Um, everything, everything that was that felt wrong, which is why you couldn’t really function, um, sustainably. Um, and not because there’s something wrong with me, but just it wasn’t, it wasn’t the right match for how I operate in this world. Um, and so she’s like, that’s all still here. Um, that hasn’t changed. And so it part of it is the, the, the self-select and knowing that that also comes with privilege, um, of that I could choose to not be there. Um, and so I think if you have to stay and this would be the same thing. Um, if we’re talking about someone who’s in a domestic violence situation, it’s actually very similar in that you can’t, you can’t rock the boat or something bad will happen. Um, and so it becomes very much a, um, find your safe people and work out a plan and, and, you know, like figure out what it is that you need because at some point you’re not going to be able to, you can’t change the situation. Um, and so you will need to leave, but you want to do it in a way that’s going to be safe to do so. Yeah. Um, I, I think that the squashing of a person, um, person’s expression to me at this point in my life feels very violent.

Laura: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think it’s interesting too. You know, like we have talked about some extreme examples. I think there’s also like it’s on a scale, right? You know, like the domestic violence situation is like at the extreme end of that, like me in a job where the boss is kind of a racist jerk, more in the middle, right? You know what I mean? Like, and I, I had even more options than I was considering. Like, what happened when I got fired was I started my own business and it was fine, but I was a little too nervous to do that. Um, before I was forced into it. So I wonder, you know, if, if it’s in the less extremes, we probably have more options than we are thinking about, you know?

Laura: And I think that’s why.

Renae: Having the conversations about it is so important because.

Laura: Yeah.

Renae: There’s that. Oh, it’s not just me.

Laura: Right?

Renae: It’s. It didn’t. I’m not alone. And I think that that’s the part that. Why support groups and conversations and dialogues and, um, carving out those places for expression and finding people who are, are helping you to understand that it isn’t okay. Um, it’s, it’s not sustainable and you’re not alone.

Laura: Right?

Laura: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I, I think that that is, it’s such a powerful thing to know that you, that other people are feeling the way that you are or that they’re even experiencing, especially when you think about the, you know, like the melancholy individualist. I think, I think that everyone has a situation where they’re just like, nobody understands this. No one gets me. And you know, when you’re really attuned with your melancholy individualists, I think that becomes even more pronounced. So the ability to find other people that are not exactly like you, but at least have a get it factor of what you’re going through. You know, because you’re certainly still a unique person, but there are other people that that have a get it factor, I think.

Laura: Yeah.

Laura: And you know, the other thing that this makes me think of is, um, I was, um, listening to Rob Bell recently and he, he was just talking about life transitions. And when you want to stop doing one thing and start doing a different thing, and that how a lot of people aren’t going to understand that and they are going to for whatever reason. Um, and even if they’re completely well meaning, but his basic point was like, it’s okay because people don’t need to get it, you know, they don’t need to get it. Like you can release them from that. And, um, I just thought that was really great. Like, oh, yeah. So like, you want to find people that get it. And then you also can, can be comforted in the fact that it’s, it’s okay if everyone doesn’t get it right.

Renae: And, and that the connection outside of yourself is, is actually really important. Um, as, as like a, is a foundation as an anchor, as a touchstone. Um, because some of the things that happens, I think when you aren’t able to have a regular practice of creative expression or, or accessing and, and spending time with your, with your depth is, um, you know, it’s harder to do, it takes longer to move in and out of that, that state. Um, and that having that, um, that touchstone that that says, yeah, like you, you showing up as yourself and expressing that in these creative ways or expressing the depth of feeling. Is there spaces for you? Right. That there’s that there’s places. And so finding those touchstone places and then internalizing that experience, um, helps you in other situations to be able to say, well, I recognize that I can’t do that here. And I don’t my, you know, like it’s okay, survival brain, you’re not taking over because I know I have a strategy for where I can do it. And so part of it’s like setting in those, um, containers, but it has to be done in safety. And so I think that part of this, the challenge of the melancholy individual who’s like feeling that they’re, Um, alone in this or that that they’re not understood. Is there are people who are going to express things differently that can still understand what it feels like to be squished, to be ignored, to be dismissed, to be misunderstood.

Laura: Right?

Renae: And so finding the people who are like, yeah, that’s not okay. I like, there’s an injustice in that. And um, doesn’t mean that it’s going to end right away, but we can also tell the truth. Um, and we’re not going to, um, you know, in, in this time and space or conversation or, or container or whatever environment. Um, we’re not going to allow that gaslighting to continue that says that you, that you don’t have value and worth of expression here. Um, and we’re not going to gaslight ourselves either.

Laura: Yeah, yeah. And I think what you’re really getting to also is just this the the integration of this, right? So you having the awareness to see what kind of situation you’re in and then, um, you know, having the critical thought to think like, is this a place where I can take action if no, like then whatever. And I’m, but I am going to move to a place where I do feel that to fill that need that I have.

Laura: Um.

Renae: And then it’s okay to have that need. I think that that’s part of the, there is a, um, you know, it comes a lot of different levels of, um, you know, don’t be weird, don’t stick out, don’t rock the boat. All of these things that point toward like a conformity, but we don’t have to have a, um, we don’t have to conform our expression, right? Like we, we need to follow rules of belonging and safety. Um, in order to participate in things. And this is the responsibility of the people who, the in charge adults to create that safety so that people can express themselves appropriately and helpfully and creatively in those spaces too.

Laura: Yeah. Yeah. True.

Laura: So.

Renae: Um, as you were thinking through the integration piece of this, um, how do you, how, like, what is a recent, um, application that you have experienced, um, in this, in this area of the, the creative. I know we talked about it a little bit before we started recording. Um, but what does that look like for you?

Laura: Well, I think that one of the most recent, one of the most recent examples I can think of is just like people getting it or not getting it. You know, like right now, I’m really interested in just this whole. All of these second half of life things. And, and my husband is also interested in that because we’re going through it together. And so we talk about it. Um, but then I, the way that we find more depth, you know, like I like to do these internal family systems journaling exercises and I want to read one hundred books about it and I want to look at the Yoga Sutras. And that’s not really for him at this point in his journey of exploring second half of life, like he enjoys having the discussion. But as far as like doing some extra looking into it, he’s not going to do that. And so I instead of being like, oh, well, he doesn’t get it. He doesn’t understand me, which he doesn’t in that slice. Then I just have other people that are interested in doing that stuff. And so that’s the kind of stuff I talk about with those people. And I think in the past, I have been in a place where, you know, I wanted him to understand every single thing about me or I wanted us to be able to talk about every single thing. And it’s not like we it’s not like those are off limits topics. But I think that I’ve become okay with being like, this is the, these are the things that these are the common interests we have, and these are the common interests that we don’t are these are separate interests, I guess. And, and just being okay with that and, and still understanding that, that we still have a really healthy, a close, close relationship despite that, if that’s making sense, I don’t know.

Laura: Well, I.

Renae: Think this is the, the strength of the individualist part is that autonomy is really important, that that showing up as my authentic self means that I can have differences of opinion, thought, likes, um, creativity, expression, all of that. Then people who I spend life with that I’m really, really close to and that’s actually really healthy so that we can see where we, we do have the things that are common and the things that set us apart as individuals. Um, and I notice I’m saying individual and not independent because we, that’s the thing is you still have the interdependence and even though, you know that should something happen to him, it will be devastating and terrible. And, and you will find a way forward. You are going to be okay. And I think that’s the the healthy piece of it that we need each other.

Laura: Mhm.

Renae: Um, but we have we exist outside of that relationship, too.

Laura: Mhm. Yeah. It’s also a good reminder for me, too. When I think about like, sometimes I might be working with someone that I get frustrated with because they don’t, they don’t see things the same way that I do or, you know, they’re not doing what I think is best for whatever situation. And then I just have to remember, like even with my husband, who I’m closer to than anyone in the world, we don’t see eye to eye on everything. And so why would I expect that everyone else. You know what I mean? This person that I’m not even that close to would see eye to eye with me on that and then that. And then it’s okay, you know, that we’re going to navigate it. We’re going to figure it out.

Laura: Right.

Renae: And that that same grace that we would want extended to us. For us, seeing things differently and processing and for having a different perspective that we extend that to other people. And I think that’s when we see kind of the healthy piece of this, right, is that we hold both. I think that’s one of the gifts of that part of us, the the melancholy individualist who can spend time in the. Yes. And the both and space of both things can be true at the same time.

Laura: Yeah. Yeah, that’s a really good point. And I, I really enjoy that. Um, as someone who identifies as someone who, you know, who wants to be an individual who wants to be unique, I love, um, I love that tenet of being an American that, you know, that you have the freedom to express yourself exactly the way you want to express yourself, that you can do what you want. And I’ve, I’ve done work for clients like non-profits that I haven’t really necessarily agreed with, but I just love the idea that they have their own thing that they’re doing, the thing that they believed in. And so I’m okay doing work for that in support of that, because I feel like all perspectives is what makes, you know, like all of one is too much. And let’s go back to moderation, right? You know, like all of that is what is makes things stronger.

Laura: So yeah.

Laura: Yay for the individualist.

Laura: You know.

Renae: And, and I think that in, in the, the litmus test for me always being the, is it, is it life giving? Right? So if, if we’re someone’s version of, um, what is creative or what is life giving or what is hopeful or what is beautiful is going to be very different than mine in lots of different situations. And that that’s okay. Like the richness is we can see that the heart of it, there’s, there’s still something that is life giving in it. And so I, we can be in, in agreement without having the same expression.

Laura: Yeah, yeah. I remember once doing some discovery work for us. I don’t know as nation nationwide financial services and they had this really complex offer that was I don’t even remember it was too it was so complicated that I really had to try hard to understand it. But as I was talking to people about it, the people that were developing it were so excited about it. And I just remember thinking like, that’s just fascinating to me that someone can get this excited about this topic and I’m glad that they have that.

Laura: Absolutely.

Renae: Absolutely. Well, um, what, you know, as we talk through the, the integration piece of this, um, the, I think that the, the practice of, Uh, um, experiencing the both and is a big part of the integration piece where the, where we’re saying, you know, the ordinary and the sacred are at the same time and that the, um, the individual and the community exist at the same time. Um, and so building in those little structures that say, um, how do I make sure that I’m holding space for that? What are little things that I can, that I can, um, you know, try or look at or, um, you know, as I’ve developed this awareness as I’ve run these experiments, um, um, what are, what are ways that I can apply this now? Um, and so what, what would you say has really come. If you had, you know only one thing to to encourage people with. Um, you only have that, you know, two minutes to encourage people with for integration. What do you think you would say?

Laura: Well, I do love this idea of just holding two perspectives at once and, and having the practice at that. And I like what you’re talking about, like everyday moments. I took a walk the other day and, um, I have a, like a biological reserve really close to my house. And I really made an intentional effort to notice, like it’s springtime here in Ohio, like these little green shoots everywhere. There’s tiny little flowers popping up. None of this is extraordinary. It happens every single year. And there’s millions of them, and it’s beautiful. And it’s just so you. I just feel such a connection to something greater when I am paying that close attention to what’s happening in nature, for example. So I think a good way to practice the both and is to find something extraordinary in the ordinary and the things that you do every day. I was taking a yoga class recently by a teacher that I was unfamiliar with, and he, you know, if you haven’t taken yoga before, there’s a thing called vinyasa. And you, you know, it’s just like a series of like three movements. And you do it over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. And it’s a really, it’s a great movement for your body and it feels really safe and comfortable because you’ve done it so much. And also you can start to check out of it because you’ve done it so much. And this teacher was like, you know, imagine this is the first time you’ve ever done a vinyasa and what are you noticing about it? And I thought, that is amazing. I’m gonna I’m gonna think about that more often.

Renae: Absolutely, absolutely. Um, I think for me, the, um. The pieces of. Comparison is, is it looms a little large, um, in this too, um, because it, the world does feel, um, scarce sometimes when, when, when there are lots of different pressures and there’s lots of financial things going on in the world and economic struggles. And so, um, it doesn’t feel like that there’s enough attention or enough money or enough space sometimes to do the things, um, that you that really would light you up. So whether it is if I do that, then I’m not going to have enough money to pay my bills or, um, someone else is already doing that in this space and I’m not, I, you know, it’s not niche enough. You know, those types of things. And so for me, the coming back to the, I can say this, I can say something that someone else is saying, but I’m going to do it in the way that that I am going to do it. And there’s value just in that, that there really isn’t a saturation of market when it comes to creative expression. And I think that part of it of, of, I don’t need to compare myself or because I’ve fallen into that trap in the last couple of weeks here and there thinking, is it my urgency is the, oh my gosh, I’m so late in life to come to this, or I wanted to be further along in these particular. I mean, I’m writing this one book for ten years and I’m like, it’s driving me bonkers because I should have. Right. Should have, you know, air quotes. Yeah. Um, finished this already. I should have gotten this out in the world. I should have published it. And, and some, for some reason, my sixty thousand words doesn’t feel like it’s enough because it’s not finished. Um, and then I’m seeing things come up that I’m like, oh, this is in that same area. This is in that same, like, this is the market and am I too late? And the answer is, no, I’m not too late. But I need to, I need to integrate that reminder into my, into my, my daily, my daily rhythm, my daily practice of saying, you’re exactly where you’re supposed to be right now, that you’re not too late, you’re not behind this, this live of urgency. Um, this, this lie of scarcity. Um, doesn’t get to to take root here.

Laura: Yeah. Yeah, I think that’s big.

Renae: Well, this has been a really fun, uh, three weeks of walking through this particular, um, uh, part of ourselves. And, um, thank you so much, Laura, for, uh, your, your wisdom and again, for, um, um, everything that you’ve brought and expressed in, in this space during. Likewise.

Laura: Renae. Same to you. Um, and then if you want to work through this third micro journey, you can pull that off of our. Well, there’s a link here. And then also we have a full workbook available for you as well.

Renae: Absolutely. Well, thanks so much, Laura. Appreciate it as always.

Laura: All right. See you soon.