The Perfectionist Isn’t the Enemy: Awareness, Safety, and “Good Enough”

Renae: Well. Hello, Laura. I’m so excited for what we’re about to do.

Laura: Yeah. Same. This is going to be a really interesting journey into all of these parts of ourselves.

Renae: I, um, I love that. Um, as we have been talking about where we want to go with having these conversations, and there are these themes that have come up, um, that it’s actually been with a lot of ease that we’ve started to approach this new, um, series, uh, set of series. Series. I don’t know what we would call it. Um, but for twenty twenty six, um, taking a look each month at, um, a different part of ourselves that we want to become an ally with. And so, um, in this, in this, uh, introduction where it feels, well, maybe a little bit discombobulated or new, it’s partly because this is this is a new thing for us, too. It was a different approach.

Laura: Yeah. For sure. I think it’s it’s an interesting way for us to flip how we are approaching. Um, I don’t know, like, I myself am always tending to be like, oh gosh, there that happens again. That thing that I do, whatever that, you know, insert thing here. Um, and then and letting that be almost like an obstacle for us. Whereas this is us saying, okay, like, how do you make that obstacle the way. Right. Like, what are

Renae: Yeah.

Laura: we? How are we seeing as an Enneagram seven, I would like to say, how are we seeing the bright side of this and how is this serving us? So it’s

Renae: Right.

Laura: going to be a really fun journey through that.

Renae: Absolutely. Well, um, just to introduce kind of the, the roadmap for what we’ll be doing, um, we will each month be taking a journey through a different aspect of ourselves and spending three weeks talking through, um, our understanding how we want to reframe things, what we want to do with that reframing and how we really can take some of these, these parts of ourselves that maybe are getting in the way, um, and figuring out how do we give them an opportunity to continue to serve what we’re doing in a better way, and something that might be a little healthier or might be more connected and certainly more integrated? And so we’re going to each week have, um, a micro journey that will be available as part of that episode. And we also have a very cool workbook for each month that will take you on an in-depth journey. So we’ll tell you a little bit more about that at the end. But let’s start with introducing the concept of the perfectionist. When I say that. What do you feel? Laura.

Laura: It’s really interesting when I when I think about a perfectionist, I don’t initially identify with that term because it when I start to think about it, I think about a person that has to have everything in a row and the people that like things really clean and people that are never satisfied with a first attempt. And I my mind initially goes to a place like that, like this kind of like typical type A personality. But when I dig into it a little bit deeper and I, you know, was was thinking about this when you suggested this topic of the perfectionist, I thought, well, what other ways could perfectionism show up? And that’s when I uncovered some things that I do really identify with. One of them, I think, is overthinking. I’m a I’m a a chronic overthinker. And then procrastination, I would say, is another way that I see pro perfectionism showing up for me as kind of like a one level down from what is the obvious perfectionism. How about you?

Renae: Yeah, I really did appreciate the opportunity to be very curious about how it shows up for me. Um, and I know that because of my, my childhood and my, my background and things I’ve experienced, um, having things right equals safety. That if I have things in order, I will be safe, because I will have met the goal. No one will be mad or I won’t stand out, I will be I will be doing what I’m supposed to be doing and won’t need any correction or any bad attention. Um, and so there is a bit of, for me, fear. um, mixed in with this idea that everything has to be right. Um, in my more mature, uh, stance on life now, um, I’m, you know, it does come with our middle aged lady experiences, too. Is that we we have less cares to give. I’m saying the PG version of that. Um, but all there’s a to me, there’s a lot of internal pushback that is saying, why? Why am I doing like, whose rules are these? Whose version of right is this? And so what I’m noticing is, um, a a big internal pushback. When I’m feeling that perfectionist come up, I say, oh, where’s that fear coming from? So to me, if I fall into a perfectionist streak. It’s probably a fair response.

Laura: Yeah, I have a similar thing with overthinking. I remember when I had, um, my first baby, um, this was way back in two thousand and one, but I, of course, was a new mother, didn’t know anything about how to care for a baby. And so I just continually armed myself with information. I was reading everything I could read about what was supposed to be happening, and I know I can’t remember the exact reasons, but I took him to the doctor at least three times the first week he was born and after he was born. And every time there would be like, yeah, this is normal, it’s fine. And I really didn’t even let up on that kind of overthinking. He’s supposed to be doing this at this time. Why isn’t he doing this? He’s supposed to be talking. Why? You know what is happening. And until he was, maybe he was probably two or a little more than that. And he wasn’t talking on the schedule that he was supposed to be talking at, and even the doctor. And we went in to see the doctor for like, this checkup and, and she said, okay, great. How many words does he have? And I was so proud, you know, I was like, he has five words. He can say these five. And she was like, oh, well, we really want him to be having like fifty words by now. And I was so devastated. But then I finally thought to myself, you know what? Like, if he doesn’t ever learn to talk, I’ll still love him as much as I love him right at this minute. So maybe it doesn’t matter that much. And so that helped me kind of let go of it. And then when I had my second baby, I like didn’t care. I didn’t know what she was supposed to be doing because whatever was going to happen was going to happen. So I think that was a really good lesson for me in that, that overthinking, like what is supposed to be, you know, as you’re saying, like, right, what’s how is this supposed to be, right? How’s this supposed to be working? And so sometimes when I see myself falling into that trap, even now, like, how is this supposed to be happening? How is my life supposed to be unfolding? How is this job supposed to be working? I can say to myself, well, whatever happens is going to happen and

Renae: Yeah.

Laura: I can just be okay with that.

Renae: And that’s really it. That’s really hard. Um, when when your origin story of perfectionism is tied to survival or safety, um,

Laura: Right.

Renae: it is really hard to release control. And so it, it really turns into a, um, you know, entering into that, that dialogue and, and recognizing that, um, your, perfectionist has a job. Your perfectionist has a job. So for for me, it was keeping me safe. It was it was um, providing it it was it was doing the the work of making sure that I didn’t get harmed or hurt. And that’s a sort of that’s part of a survival response to things that then ended up really, um, going through a lot of my life and causing me to have some strong rigidity and strong, like, really firm structures that kept me from being able to be flexible and curious and open. And, um, for me, it was also the introduction of children into my life that that definitely broke me of a lot of the idea that I had control over a lot of things. Um, and so

Laura: They’re good for that, aren’t they?

Renae: It’s just like and here’s the reality is that you can you can kind of control some stuff inside of yourself. And that’s where your influence might actually end. Um, but the so, so to have that, that pause to say, um, you know what what was your job perfectionism. What what did you did you do and and enter into kind of that dialogue as you’re being curious about it. Um, and so for you, what was that dialogue like?

Laura: I think for me, the perfectionist is always trying to shield me from making a fool of myself or letting you know this shows up in procrastination, right? So like keeping me from opening my mouth and and proving that I’m stupid or, you know, like showing too much of myself for people to judge it. Um, you know, not, um, just, you know, in general, it’s protecting me from looking foolish. Right. And so it is a real, um, journey for me, I guess, or an exercise that I have to be mindful of to say when I find myself procrastinating to say to myself, okay, like what? Where am I really afraid? Here? Like, what am I afraid is going to happen if I do this thing? And then having that conversation of sometimes it’s as easy as being like, okay, well, what is the worst thing that could happen? And be like, okay, everyone’s going to laugh at you and you’ll never work again. And then being able to reflect on kind of the ridiculousness of that, and then also like what would happen if everyone laughed at me. Like, you know, like, is that a real scenario that’s even going to happen. And if it does, or are the people that would laugh at me? People that I would even care about. So I think just kind of uncovering what’s beneath that or what what what that thing is protecting you that might happen. And then being able to move forward, understanding that it’s a possibility and and thinking perfectionism for, you know, bringing that to your attention and walking forward anyway.

Renae: Absolutely. And I think, you know, for, for, uh, what you describe there is the catastrophizing of what could happen. And

Laura: Yeah.

Renae: that that was actually like a real, um, I’m having a flashback to junior high, actually, because I had a pretty, pretty, um, you know, I had a challenging childhood, um, and I had a challenging social life. I moved a lot, and I’m. I am perfect for. If you want to bring somebody in awkward into a situation. I’m your gal. I will make things awkward. I have such a gift of that. I will say the wrong thing. I will point out stuff that people don’t want pointed out. Um, I will make jokes that tell a truth that are really funny, but are also really uncomfortable. Like, that’s. I’m so good at that. And, um, I remember in, in junior high, there was a situation that happened where I became a social pariah for two days. It was like no one would come near me, talk to me. It was I would sit somewhere and people would just. It would part the seas. And in that time, that was like part of my greatest fear of You know what, I. I don’t line up. I’m not. I’m not right. There’s something wrong with me. And I had to find my anchor in that moment of. But what do I know is true. Um, and in that, that, you know, in my mind, my anchor happened to be my relationship with God. And that was became my saving grace. Right? It was the thing I could hold on to and say, okay, all these people might have rejected me, but I have a God who loves me. And I just kept remembering that I don’t have to line up with their idea, because I’ve already been accepted and loved by the God who knows everything. Um, and that same type of anchor is part of what went in in my adulthood when I have that catastrophizing, oh no, this could happen. I have to come back to that grounding to say, you know what? I it’s okay, because I actually have this this anchor. Um, and that’s been really important for me for letting go of the idea of someone else’s right, someone else’s correct, someone else’s rules. Because I will get really stressed out about their parameters. But those are not the true parameters of my life.

Laura: Yeah, I that’s such a painful experience. I mean, it’s making me upset just hearing about it. And it’s for someone that young to have an experience like that is really challenging. I’m sorry that happened to you. Um, and it also, I, I love how two things about it. One is how it forced you to find an anchor that you could always rely on, which I think is. um, invaluable skill. Um, or just it’s not even a skill. It’s a thing that you can have to get you through. And then I love this idea of not putting of being able to question what other people’s rules and regulations for you are. I had a I had a job once. That was it was a great job and it was teaching me a lot. And I worked for someone that was really smart and, um, a great mentor. And so I was just trying to do everything that that person had said. And at one point, they gave me some feedback on some work I had done, and I didn’t really know what to do with it. I didn’t know how to fix it, and I took it to someone else who was a really great mentor to me at the time, and he said, well, you know, you should fix it because this is what your boss is asking of you. But also remember that just because this person says a thing doesn’t make it true. And I was like, oh, you know what? You’re so right about that. And it was something that I had kind of forgotten. You know, I kind of lost myself in, in trying to perform for this person, which wasn’t even it wasn’t even a negative thing because they were really pushing me to a level of work that I hadn’t been able to achieve yet. And so, you know, ninety percent of me trying to live up to this person’s expectations was a good thing for me and my personal, well, my professional growth especially. But there was that ten percent where I had just kind of forgotten, like, you know, look at the bigger context of what you’re doing here, right? Like, not everything that they say is going to be perfectly true, even though most of this is benefiting you.

Renae: Right. Well, and it’s the what I’m hearing in that too, um, that I feel is very true for me as well is The the the perfectionist fear um, is is failure right

Laura: Yes.

Renae: that there’s a this deep, deep fear of failing and the the thing is, we don’t grow without failing. We have to get it wrong. And if we in order to learn how to do things in new ways, if not, then if if we only are getting it, quote unquote. Right, right. If we’re, if we’re, um, and we’re following one set of this is right, everything’s going to look the same, there’s going to be no, um, there’s not going to be multiple perspectives. There’s not going to be, um, beauty that that catches us off guard and helps us to see things in a new way. There’s not going to be, um, connections that are made. And it’s it’s going to be really homogeneous. And that’s that is where we stop growing. We are no longer growing. We are just conforming. And to me that that is not a satisfactory way of of living. We need to fail and perfection. I think that the, the where it gets challenging for us is in adulthood is that we, if we are, um, so protected against failure, we can’t grow.

Laura: Yeah, I completely agree with that. I, I think that a lot of times especially like in entrepreneurship, entrepreneurship, everyone’s like, you know, fail, fail, it’s good for you. And that’s all true. And I think sometimes they skip over how deeply painful it actually can be to

Renae: Yeah.

Laura: fail. So but you know, like that that painful experiences unfortunately I feel like are really great push for us to grow. Um, and that’s failure, right? It’s so painful, but so valuable as a teacher.

Renae: So I think for, for me the, the and for making friends with that perfectionist in, in some in some respect it is how can I create the environment or the opportunities for me to fail with the safety net? Right. That can we do

Laura: Um.

Renae: some low stakes trying things out and and being aware of where that perfectionist is creeping up and and being curious about what are those patterns, what, what what’s happening in this situation right now that makes my perfectionist show up to to say, whoa, hold on, there’s danger and and is is that in while that pattern may me absolutely one hundred percent be true. Do I have skills now that I didn’t have when I was thirteen years old? Um,

Laura: Right.

Renae: do do I have an anchor that I didn’t have at that time? Are there other ways that I might be able to to take that and say, ah, here’s an awareness. And, um, and so, um, you, you and I have talked about the framework for this is to look at how is perfectionist showing up, um, through the lenses of our heart, our mind, our body and our soul. Um, and so I’d love to hear from you when you’re, when that cue that lets you know that your perfectionist is rearing its head. Um, how is that showing up in your body?

Laura: I would say that perfectionism is showing up in me, like hunching my shoulders and and having kind of a tightening, um, across the chest area for sure. And I find myself when I am doing those awareness exercises that you’re referencing. Like, you know, when you take that pause to say, okay, that is me. A lot of times scanning and finding this shoulder hunching, the jaw clenching, and then, you know, releasing of that. Um, one thing I do, I want to hear how you are battling this in your body or not battling it, but how you’re bringing awareness and ease to your body. But I also would love to point out, too, that the things that we’ve talked about, that perfectionism is protecting us from are really deeply painful things. You’re

Renae: Yeah,

Laura: being laughed at by all of your

Renae: yeah.

Laura: friends, or shunned and ignored or failing at something that you’ve tried really hard

Renae: Yep.

Laura: at. You know, like all of these things, I think it’s it’s worth us acknowledging to perfectionism, like, thank you because it is hurtful to feel all of those things, and it’s nice that you have a body part that’s trying to go to bat for you, to protect you from that, even though it might not be always in your best interest, it’s trying to be in your best interest.

Renae: Absolutely. And I really do appreciate you taking that pause. And, and I wanted to mention to, um, for anybody who’s listening to this, who you have felt that tension in your body or your mind has started racing, your heart started beating or, um, you felt a little bit of discomfort in this, um, to know that, uh, you are not alone and that your experience is one hundred percent valid, there is one hundred percent a reason that your brain and body have brought this to your attention, and it is to keep your keep you safe that at some point in your experiences, there’s been a pattern where these types of things have shown up and you have been harmed, and your your perfectionist is showing up to say, oh, I don’t want that to happen again. And this is an opportunity to to bring awareness to it. That’s this week. One is is the awareness. And I know it shows up for me. Um, when I have, um, tension headaches, I, I that is one hundred percent because I’m clenching my jaw. I have that rigidity in my in my back. I’m maybe hunching a little bit because I’m, I’m like driven forward and trying to, to do the thing. And there’s this piece of, um, the, the humility piece of it. Um, I don’t like being humiliated, but I do like to take a humble posture when I can and say, okay, hold on, I don’t I am putting a lot of weight on this right now. Um, and maybe this isn’t. Maybe this isn’t the right focus. Uh, this has been a lot of my entrepreneurial journey, actually has been, um, you know, I’m continually saying to myself, gosh, I feel so far behind. And then I’m like, wait, I am in charge of me.

Laura: Right.

Renae: I’m not behind in anything to anybody else. It. I have set the agenda. I have set the timeline. I’ve set the deadlines. So can I, like, chill out for just a second? And it just doesn’t mean that I’m not doing something. It’s looking at like, why am I making this such a big deal? And so there is a piece for me that when I talk about that forward posture. It’s like this drive, because I do have this deep fear that I lose my motivation, that I’ll lose my momentum, and that comes from my neurodivergence and it comes from my own history. And even today, I was thinking about the funny way that this shows up for me is I have stacks and stacks and stacks of lists, and I have these lists because every once in a great while, I will have the best brain dump ever, and I’ll write everything down and I’ll be like, okay, it’s out of my head, but then it’s out of my head and I’m terrified that I will forget this important thing that I wrote down. And so I’ll have these stacks of lists. And that’s how my perfectionism really shows up in that. In that part of my eye, I lose a little self-trust because I haven’t developed a system for how to capture things. And so for me that that my answer is not that I freak out about having these stacks of paper. It’s the all right, what would the system be that I might, you know, look at this differently or collect this information differently, or record or memorialize or whatever it is. Um, and I don’t want to skip ahead too far into our, in our process because we’re really just talking about awareness right now. But I can look at that stack of paper and be like, ah, that’s a perfectionism right there.

Laura: Yeah, yeah. I have another interesting pattern that shows up for me, which is I love to start new projects, and part of it is just because that is exciting to me, and learning something new is really exciting to me. It gives me a lot of energy, and I also think that part of it is also getting to a certain place into a project and then thinking, oh well, what if this really works? And um. And everyone starts to know about it, and then I make a mistake or, you know, like, what if this. I put this out into the world and it’s not as good as I wanted it to be. I think that can motivate me to quit things, to start something new. You know, if if something that I’ve started isn’t. I think another thing is like, if it’s not going exactly the way I want it to or the way that I expected it to the quote, the right way, then it’s a lot easier for me to just pick up and start something new and make that a thing of the past, and that is a it’s a pattern that’s shown up for me a lot, but it’s really only since we started talking more deeply about this. And like, I think this is especially relevant to my perfectionism that I really started to realize, like, what might be behind that instead of it’s easy for me to say, well, it’s just my personality. And, you know, part of that is true, but that’s not the whole story either.

Renae: Right. Well, I, I love how we’ve been able to take this time to, um, really explore, I think the origin story and, and look at the different ways that perfectionism shows up and, and always with this lens of compassion and gratitude. I think that part is, is a little hard sometimes. Um,

Laura: Yes.

Renae: and we’ll get to doing some more of that. Um, but our, our, uh, encouragement for this week, for this part one of the, the three part series for the twenty one day perfectionist journey is this awareness piece. And so you’re invited to take the same type of reflections through how this is showing up for you, where it came from, um, what its job has been. Um, and then to, to really develop your own perfectionist profile. Um, as you’ve heard, Laura and I pulling together these, these different parts of of, um, how it’s showing up and, and what it looks like, what it feels like, um, how we know um, and that helps us to, to get ready to travel into the next part, which we’ll do in week two. Um, so you are invited to, um, to join us for next week when we talk about healing, um, really understanding, um, more about what the protection is for, um, what we can do to, to express our gratitude, our compassion and learn from, um, this, this part of ourselves. What does that mean for this part of our lives? Now, what what things can we do now? Um, and then in week three, we’ll continue on with that journey and start to talk about how do we integrate this, these, this new job for our perfectionist, um, where do we take these strengths and these skills and create those touch points, um, those practices that help us to, um, really grow, um, and to understand how this is can support us versus get in the way, um, and continue to to be friends, make be be an ally with our perfectionists. So we have a a great workbook for everyone if you would like to, uh, purchase that and download it. It is a twenty one day perfectionist journey where we get to make an ally out of our inner perfectionist. And for those who are not quite ready to take that deep dive, we also have a micro journey available for you for each week. So this week will be your perfectionist micro journey for awareness that will be available for free for download. So, um, thank you so much, Laura, for um, all of your, um, openness and transparency and talking about this because you’re right, there’s so much ouch included

Laura: Right?

Renae: in this. Um, thank you so much.

Laura: Yeah. Thank you. And if you, um, download either the Micro Journey or the workbook, we would love to hear what things are resonating for you and what is landing and what you’re really discovering about yourself, because we’re both very fascinated by the human condition and and by people diving into what’s going on with them and how that sheds light and helps them move forward in a more positive way.

Renae: Absolutely. Thanks, Laura.

Laura: Thank you.