It’s Only Harmonious for Everyone Else: Why Sweeping It Under the Rug Doesn’t Actually Work

Laura: Well. Hello, everyone. Hello, Renae. Welcome back to our podcast. And this series, we’re talking about the peacekeeper. Renae. How are you feeling this lovely day?

Renae: Feeling a lot of things. Um, how am I feeling about what we’re going to talk about? Um, I’ve, I have thoughts I’m not sure I’m going to let myself have as many feelings.

Laura: All right. Fair enough. I, I feel like I can’t wait to uncover what that is going to mean for this conversation. So last time we talked about the peacekeeper, our inner peacekeeper and just identifying it. And so this week I know we’re going to talk about um maybe what’s the why behind that. Why are we trying to keep the peace? Why is this part of us? Maybe sometimes wanting us to disappear from the conversation. So let’s start there. When you think about the times when you are trying to disappear from a conversation, um, what comes up about why that might be happening? Do you have initial thoughts on that?

Renae: Yeah. And I think it relates a little bit to when we were talking about the hermit, there’s, um, you know, coming back to safety, right? That there’s, there’s some reason that it’s not safe to show up or to be there. Um, that’s what it is for me. I don’t think that’s, I think that’s more hermit than peacekeeper. Um, I think that part for me, um, the. When, when my peacekeeper disappears, it’s, it’s a little bit of a cut bait. Never mind. Don’t care. disconnection type of space. There’s just not going to engage.

Laura: Yeah. I, I hear you on the hermit piece because I absolutely have that too. Like a lot of times if I’m disengaging and shutting down, it’s because I would like to go back into my cave now. Thanks. Um, but I, I can, I can identify sometimes I think it’s less about, um, me disappearing and more about me not liking conflict and wanting to shy away from that a little bit. And so sometimes I will do things that, that I might not want to do. Like I’m disappearing my opinion in order for there to be harmony. Um, and yeah, I mean, I guess that is also about safety, right? Like that feels safer that everything is harmonious, then that if there’s some kind of conflict happening.

Renae: But this is the part that pisses me off. And I said I was going to have feelings, but obviously I do. It’s not harmonious for me. If I have to like shut it down and hold it in, it’s harmonious for everyone else. And how come their needs are more important than mine? All of our needs are important. I shouldn’t have to just give up on mine just because it doesn’t make people feel good.

Laura: It’s true, it’s true. Um, yeah. Well, what do you think about when you have to be the person? Because I, I’m on both sides of this. Like sometimes I, I don’t want there to be conflict. And other times I’m the one bringing the conflict because I need something to get resolved so we can all move on with our lives. Um, how do you feel about sometimes being the person that has to bring the conflict in, especially when we are talking with someone that has a kind of a prominent peacekeeper inside them, because that is like the last thing they are wanting, you know?

Renae: Yeah. And, and I, you know, I think I’ve stated it before that I don’t have problems with conflict. It’s not, um, not that I want there to be anger, not that I want there to be discord. To me, conflict is the tool in which we can get to peace. Um, because we are clearing the deck of the things that would, that are unspoken or, um, underneath the surface that keep us from being able to actually connect and collaborate and engage and all those things. And so it’s, um, I’m trying to figure out how much to tell of this story because I don’t want to gross anybody out. But, um, I was on when I was younger, we were on a camping trip and we went to Meramec Caverns. If anybody knows, where that is in the middle of the United States. And, um, while we were there, it turns out that, um, my sister had an ingrown toenail and she wouldn’t tell anybody about it. She, it was like, because we were very much a don’t come crying to me unless you’re bleeding into your shoe type of household. Like you just kept these things to yourself. But it started to impact her ability to walk. And then eventually, um, they there, you know, it came to light and it had to be dealt with. And I just remember at that point my dad saying, I know this next part is going to hurt, but you need to, to hurt for this moment to get it to the surface so we can clear out the infection. And that has kind of been the way that I have thought of conflict, that it’s it’s not conflict for conflict’s sake. It’s we’re trying to clean up the stuff that’s festering and could actually end up killing this organism. Um, which is relationship could be a team, could be an organization, whatever. But we, it’s going to hurt. We gotta like squeeze or poke it or whatever and get it out and then care for it so that it can heal. And, and so when someone or when myself would, you know, like when that peacekeeper piece comes up, um, it can feel to me a little passive aggressive because it’s this, I know I want to pretend that there’s peace, but that just means we just have to not deal with the hard stuff, not deal with the nasty stuff. And, and I think, oh my gosh, we’re going to fester and get infected and we could die.

Laura: Yeah, I have. That reminds me so much of. Well, two things. One is that reminds me when I was a little girl. So my my grandparents had my mom when they were really young. And so they were pretty young grandparents. Um, so I also, that also means that they’re, um, my grandpa’s mom. Well, both of their parents were still alive for me for a long time. So I had great grandparents into my twenties. And so, um, I remember though, when I was about six or seven that these new people started coming around and they were my Uncle Elmo and my Aunt Dolores and my great grandma Lillian and I, they were strangers to me at that point. But then they started to become part of our lives. And, you know, later in my life, I asked my mom, like, what’s the deal with? So it’s turned out to be like my, my grandpa’s sibling, Dolores, and her husband and then his mother, uh, grandma Lillian. And, um, I said, how come I don’t remember them before I was, you know, six or seven. And she was like, oh, well, because they got mad and stopped talking to, um, you know, to Grandma and grandpa and, but then they reconciled. But like, I think about that, you know, like that festering, whatever it was, they eventually resolved it, right? But like they lost so much time of not having a relationship because of whatever thing it was. And I don’t, and I don’t remember exactly what it was, but it wasn’t a huge deal. You know what I mean? It wasn’t like some great betrayal. It was just some kind of, you know, nitpicky misunderstanding. And, um, because they didn’t surface it and it was easier to, um, disengage. I feel like they lost a lot of valuable time, um, having a relationship with their family that, you know, because then once they came back into our family, I remember us having a lot of fun together. Um. So sad. Right?

Renae: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that’s the when we talk about peace, we talked about this a little bit last week in that, you know, what does peace mean? What does that mean to you? Right. What does peaceful mean? And there’s for me, it’s there’s an alignment, there’s safety to be able to show up. But if I have to be on my guard or I have to worry that I’m by being me, I’m going to upset someone. Um, and I’m not talking about like, going around and being a jerk. I really still don’t think people are authentically jerks. Um, but that if it’s, if it’s too loud or too opinionated or too whatever the thing happens to be, and someone’s like, oh, that’s, you know, that’s pushing on the edges of my worldview. Well, it’s okay. Like it. That’s that’s part of peace is that we are, you know, we’re telling the truth, that we’re integrated enough in ourselves that mixing with other people doesn’t ruin that groundedness or that maybe we’ll learn more from our perspectives. And so it’s, there’s just like a, a piece of a p I e c e of, um, gas lighting, if you know, like that’s a really strong term for it, but it’s like we’re pretending that it doesn’t exist. And that’s, I think that’s where I’ve just seen so much pain happen, so much damage happen when we’re not telling the truth.

Laura: Yeah, yeah. I think that things that are hidden are, um, I don’t know, a lot scarier, right? Like it when you think about a sense of safety on one level, it’s like, okay, nobody’s fighting. There’s no conflict. Like that can feel okay on the surface. But when you know there’s something underneath that, you know, there’s like some kind of monster in the closet, you really don’t ever feel completely relaxed. And it’s so much easier to, you know, see the monster and figure out how you’re going to deal with that. Then wonder what it is behind those closed doors that might jump out at any time.

Renae: Absolutely. And I think that’s a point that you bring up, is that the cognitive dissonance of someone saying that things are a certain way? The thing the thing is we have mirror neurons, we have these empathetic connections and we’re like, we have BS detectors. And so if if someone says everything’s fine, you’re like, oh, I know it’s not fine. I know that’s not true. Um, and so I don’t if you if you’re going to lie to me to my face when I can tell that there’s something else that’s not okay. And then if I’m in a continued relationship with you, then I’m going to start to worry like, oh, did is it really all okay? And I’m going to start to doubt my own sanity. Um, and that holds a whole other, you know, cycle that, that isn’t awesome. Um, you know, for a long term trajectory. So I think that, you know, we, we started a little bit with this conversation with this question of disappearing. And I think what I would say is nothing disappears. It just goes under the surface.

Laura: Right?

Renae: And there’s an inherent dishonesty that can come from that when I’m being asked continually to. Accept a reality that’s not a reality.

Laura: Right? Yeah. Whatever that thing is that you’re disappearing, putting under the surface. It needs sunlight. It’s not going to do well hidden under there. When you think about conflict and conflict as you might have experienced it growing up, um, what did that look like? I mean, you already gave us a little bit of a clue into, um, how things were in your family dynamic. Do you have other thoughts about that you can trace back to just conflict in general and why you might be? So I, I feel like I don’t want to speak for everybody. I feel like you just told us like you’re not afraid of kind of like coming right in and thinking about conflict. Has it always been like that, or is that something that you kind of learned because of way conflict was handled?

Renae: I think I probably have always been like that has not always fit into the environments I’ve been in, including my family of origin. So, um. There is a, there is a piece of leading conflict. Well, right. Notice I said leading, not managing. Um, because managing is a little bit more peacekeeper like. Um, but, but leading conflict well means creating environments in which people can have the freedom and the safety and the opportunity to express their needs, express their hurts, express what is misaligned, and then work toward how can we repair this and what can we do going forward. And I think that’s actually just part of my nature. Um, my name’s Renae. Um, which means renewal, rebirth. Um, and it, I think that’s just part of who I am and have always been. It just hasn’t necessarily been acceptable, especially in places where I was not deemed the in charge person. So if I bring a conflict resolution lens to things, that’s like an there is a natural leadership to that which can be threatening to other people.

Laura: Yeah. When I think about conflict, when I was little, we did not we honestly did not have that much. And so I think what’s interesting to me about that is that, um, when we did have conflict, like I, I really can think of only a few, um, a few times my parents ever like really fought and they did, they were not people that bickered or anything like that. Um, there was a lot of harmony, which is nice, but the ironic thing is I think that then when there was conflict, it was very scary because I was not used to it. And so I think that’s something that I really had to learn as an adult that it’s okay, you know, like it’s you, you just have to work some stuff out and that it’s easier to work things out, um, via that conflict then let it fester, as we’ve been saying, like that’s a worse way. But yeah, um, I hadn’t really thought of that until just now. How interesting that is, how unsafe conflict made me feel, only because I just really wasn’t used to experiencing very much of it.

Renae: And that’s such a good point for us to think about us as humans, that the while we don’t want to seek adversity, we also know that adversity plays a role. Stress plays a role. It helps us to develop resilience because it gives us the opportunity to develop strategies. Those are best developed course in healthy relationships. And there’s the key is that in a healthy relationship, it’s, it’s okay for us to make mistakes because there’s a repair pathway back.

Laura: Right?

Renae: And so peacekeeping for me, when I hear that, that, that I’m keeping the peace is I don’t don’t disturb things by bringing up where there might be issues. And it would at that point, I’m, I don’t feel safe because we’re not able to, again, tell the truth of what’s actually happening.

Laura: Yeah. Um, you know, it’s interesting you and I are having this conversation about our peacekeeping parts because I feel like our peacekeeping parts don’t have a huge voice in all of our parts, us personally. Um, but because one of the questions that we, you know, have thought about for consideration is like when you when you have a prominent peacekeeper part, there sometimes can be a lot of anger underneath that, right? Because you’re always conceding to what other people might want. But it’s also hard for you to recognize that. Is that something that you’ve experienced where you weren’t recognizing anger? Or is it something that like, I can, I can tell you that I know someone in my family that is like this and has a lot of latent anger. Um, that, and then sometimes it kind of just like really explodes and can be surprising to other people because it seems to come out of nowhere. But, you know, of course, that person has been feeling like that for all this time, but kind of maybe hiding it from themselves. I don’t know, what are your thoughts on that?

Renae: I think that, um, maybe it’s not as much coming from my peacekeeper. I think the way that it could come up is, um, I, I have noticed as I’ve gotten older, the, the times I like hanging out with my peacekeeper a little more, um, is when it’s. Creating, it’s creating a buffer for other people. So, um, kind of, um, as an advocate or a stand in or as a, I hear what you’re saying. Have we thought about how this person might be affected by blank? Right. So there’s a, um. Yeah, it’s just an advocate role. And when I see that there’s injustice that’s, that’s occurring. Um, I think that that’s when the anger, um, comes up. Now, if you’d asked me about this, you know, ten years ago, probably there’d be a different answer. I just think that I’ve, I’ve reached that part of life where I’m much less likely to let things go. Um, when, when I am feeling like I’m kind of being forced to disappear, um, or, or hold back. Um, yeah, I was just having a brunch with a friend this weekend and we were talking about, um, how I was counseled in a, and I think I’ve talked about this before actually, but I was counseled by HR representative and an organization when I was interviewing for positions and she said, I hate to say this as a woman, but maybe you shouldn’t come on so strong and with so much personality in your interviews because you’re kind of scaring these directors. At which point I looked at her and said, well, if they can’t handle me in an interview, they cannot handle me Monday through Friday.

Laura: I was about to say, it doesn’t seem like that was a good fit for you.

Renae: But it’s that same thing of, you know, um, to keep the peace so that no one’s upset. Please contort yourself. That that would make me angry. And then I didn’t have necessarily the words for it other than just to say like, yeah, no, I’m not going to do that. Yeah. Um, but but now I’m more angry when I see it happening to other people.

Laura: Yeah. Yeah. So I think maybe the message for, for our listeners is for them to examine in, in themselves when they see this peacekeeper coming up. And when I mean like that is what the work that you have been doing. I know, but maybe this week trying to go a layer deeper, like what’s behind it? Why is it happening? Is there some anger, resentment, um, shutting down? Is that is there some underlying pieces of that? And maybe what are the why behind those? What else would you add? Renae.

Renae: Yeah, I think this the, the different than the awareness piece of what, what is the, the peacekeeper and how is it showing up? It’s the starting to look at the signals. What, what’s, what is it telling you and how is it telling you? And also a little bit of what stories have been attached to those signals, right? Like you just discovered today in your conversation, Laura, the wait a minute. It was harder for me to experience conflict in those times because I hadn’t developed that that muscle yet. I hadn’t developed how that strategy for how do I, um, resolve conflict? So it was so new and it was scary and kind of painful. Um, and so just noticing our signals and noticing a little bit of what, what the stories are and, and what we need. I think that’s comes to me central. I started that conversation, the beginning of this conversation of saying, but what about my needs? And I think that’s probably a great place to start if you’re trying to figure out if this part comes up for you, if you feel like you say that a lot, what about my needs? This might be a good spot.

Laura: Right? So you can download our micro journey and see what that looks like. Or if you want an even deeper experience, we have our full twenty one day workbook that you can download as well.

Renae: Awesome. Thanks so much, Laura.

Laura: Thank you. It’s great to be here, and we will see you next week. And we’ll wrap up our peacekeeper.