Caught in the Disappearing Act: How to Come Back Without Burning It All Down

Laura: All right. Well, welcome to week three of our discussion of the hermit. Renae, how are you doing today?

Renae: I’m doing well. I’m I’m really enjoying this journey.

Laura: Yeah, absolutely. Have you felt like you had enough hermit time over the last week or two?

Renae: Um, I have been creating it intentionally is a, is a response to the work that we’ve been doing through this. And so I am actually noticing some really interesting benefits and, and things that have cropped up for me.

Laura: Yeah.

Laura: You know, when we ended our last conversation before we started getting into, you know, how we can, as you’re saying, like make intentional time, um, for the hermit. One of the things that you said at the end of our last conversation has really stuck with me and I saw it coming up. Um, so you said, you know, like if you are feeling like, you know, this is quote happen, I mean, like happening to you, like you’re retreating, you’re, you’re, um, and it’s not something that feels good then you’re, you know, that’s just your body and your brain like protecting you, right? And all we’re going to do is we’re just going to we’re going to identify those patterns. And then we’re going to see, you know, maybe those patterns aren’t serving us anymore. We’re going to redirect. And, um, I have been working with, um, someone who is a body worker because one of my, so I, I broke my left ankle while I was teaching Zumba, um, right before the pandemic started and it healed up fine. But now this many years later, my left, my whole left leg has started to really bother me. And so I, this person did a workshop for us at my yoga studio and, and it was like a learning about fascia. And then along with it, he did like this individual like body reading just to kind of show you like, what are your body patterns that you may or may not be noticing? And, um, one of the big things that was happening for me is that I had been, um, Favoring my left leg ever since then. And so as a result, like my right leg was always taking most of the weight. And then the way I was holding my left leg to kind of baby that ankle, which all of this is happening unconsciously, right? And well, so what was happening was that, you know, my bones are kind of the weight that was on my bones in my left leg was basically like twisting my knee. And then it was affecting my hip. And then it was also affecting my low back, my SI joint. And, and so I, um, and it is keeping me from like walking a great distance. My knee starts to hurt, my ankle starts to hurt. And so I decided to work with this person to, you know, try to help, um, guide that in a different way. And so when I went to him and I originally said, you know, like, okay, like I need to fix this, this can’t be a thing. Like I can’t not walk. And he said, well, it’s not something that you need to fix. It’s just a pattern that we’re going to adjust, a pattern that your body fell into to help it heal, and it is a thing. So we’re just going to we’re going to work on it together. And so just even in that first session, just a whole difference between being like, my body’s broken, I gotta fix it. It’s so annoying to being like, wow, isn’t that interesting that in order to heal my body, you know, my body did some other stuff to kind of like, you know, like take that piece that was really vulnerable and protect it. And now that it’s all healed, I can I the work now is to go back and tell the other parts of the body, okay? Like we, you know, that’s healed now. We don’t have to, we don’t have to be acting like this anymore. And I think that’s so similar to what we’re talking about here with these internal parts. Like they’re just doing the best that they can. And isn’t it interesting that you have these protection mechanisms in place to like, help you navigate your life?

Renae: Absolutely. And what a great example, um, from, from your story of the, where we’re just noticing patterns and we’re letting those be information that is helping us to, to figure out, um, how, how do we adjust? And I think that that’s the, that allows us growth instead of stagnation, right? Because it’s, it’s growing through it. It’s, it’s, it’s allowing it to, um, you to be changed by the things that you’re experiencing and saying, okay, what is a new way of being that is a result of this? And so it it I appreciate that because it tells a fuller truth of, of the situation. Instead of continually trying to go back to where things were. Um right. And that there is a um, um, I’m wondering again too, like it makes me think that there’s sometimes a little magical thinking that we have about the, what was before, um, when we tried to, to go like go back to it, whether that is a intentionally or subconscious or reactive or whatever it happens to be. Um, and, and so as we’re craving, we’re craving, um. This, this sometimes I think like solitude or, um, again, what we talked about before, the difference between the isolation and the solitude. But when we’re when we’re choosing solitude, whether it’s reactive or responsive, um, it’s, I think because our brain and body are also telling us, wait, you take a pause and really look at your patterns and assess what you need.

Laura: Yeah.

Renae: Right.

Laura: Yeah, I think too, it’s interesting to think about, um. When you are, when you think looking at your patterns and seeing that over and over, you’re finding yourself in this kind of like shut down retreat. If that’s the case for you, you know, then how do you both intentionally say to yourself, okay, I need to create space for myself to have a retreat? And then also, how do you look at your day, your week holistically? Um, when you’re planning to say, oh, that’s a thing coming up on my schedule that’s going to sap all my energy. And so I need to make sure I have a big retreat space that day, or this is a light day, I can go out and have dinner with another human being that night. And that’s going to feel great, right? Because I haven’t used up all my energy during the day. So I think that’s part of the intention to is just looking at those, the dynamic nature of what’s happening with our energy.

Renae: Yeah. And I think the, the, as I’m working with clients through with capacity coaching, which is one of the things that, that I do, the conversation around buffer times, um, is so fascinating. Um, and I’m just, I’m just as terrible about doing that generally. And so I, that’s one of the things I’ve been working on is to create, um, it’s now, there are now decompression times in my calendar after certain types of events, and I used a nice little tool to to automatically put those in. That if it’s a certain type of event, automatically decompression time shows up afterward. And I wrestled a little bit with myself about like, gosh, there’s so much less time on my calendar that’s available. And then I had to have that conversation with myself that’s like, right.

Laura: Yeah.

Renae: That’s the point is that you, you, you want, you want to be doing all of these things. Um, because that’s, you know, that’s my personality. I want to do all of the things.

Laura: Mhm.

Renae: Um, and I, it, it’s, it is actually more than my system can, can hold.

Laura: Yeah.

Renae: And so that truth telling is creating those healthy pockets of, of downtime instead of it being something that my, that, that, that creeps up as a protection.

Laura: Yeah. You know, I think that makes me think of something interesting that we talk a lot about, um, you and I, and I think in general, we also have this discussion of like this productivity mindset that we’re all in where we have to be doing as much as humanly possible, you know, all day long or else we’re not doing it right. And, and when we talk about that, I think a lot of times that we’re talking about that in kind of a negative connotation to say, hey, you don’t have to be productive twenty four hours a day. But I think the other side of that is like, there should be some productive times, right? And you should be wanting to create whatever it is you want. Um, and so to me, when I think about you putting in buffer times, um, that is helping you be more efficient and productive in those productivity times. You know, so more so even, I think, than if you took eight hours to be productive. You’re doing it in sprints. And I think you’re probably getting more better quality work done.

Renae: Yeah, I’ve definitely noticed that. And I, and I think I’ve, in my, in my talks when I’m, you know, sharing in trainings or in workshops or in speaking engagements about, um, you know, the. If we, if we pause, does that mean that we can’t come back? Right. I think that the, the, the fear of losing momentum, um, like what happens if I actually stop or what happens if I pivot or what happens if I adjust? I’m going to I’m just going to lose everything. So there’s that sunk cost piece of it. Um, but it’s also the, we, when we have our needs met, we naturally help others. We naturally work, we, we like to work as human beings. And if we aren’t, if we’re like avoiding any type of work, it is generally telling us that there’s like a baseline fear that that we’re going to come into harm if we expend that energy or that we’re going to be shamed, or that we don’t know enough to be able to accomplish it, or whatever it happens to be, or maybe our basic needs are met. Maybe we don’t have aren’t met, maybe we don’t have enough rest or fuel or hydration or, or safety in the space. And so the, the trust that occurs here of saying, um, you know, can I take that pause and is it safe to come back? Um, I think we can set up intentional containers, uh, for coming back that make it safe to say like, this is how, whether it’s, this is how long I’ll take a pause and this is what it’s going to look like when I come back.

Laura: Mhm. And I think the more that we are intentional about taking pauses, the easier it is to come back. You know, I personally have been through this cycle more times than I care to admit publicly, but where I’ll push and push and push and push and push and then I’m burned out and I don’t want to do anything for a week. And I, I’m just finding myself unable to really get into anything. Um, but the more I find the cycle of, you know, let’s use Cal Newport’s word, I call it slow productivity. The more I can do that, then when I take time, then I take time off and then I can come right back to the work the very next day. And I don’t, um, I don’t get burned out on it the way I do when I’m just trying to mash through and get as much done as, as humanly possible. I mean, for me, that’s like a work thing, but I think that can apply to anything where you’re spending a lot of energy, you know, like the more you can pace yourself, the, the more efficient it’s going to be and the less you’re going to flame out of it and, and be incapacitated for a day, a week, a month, however long.

Renae: Yeah. And I think, um, you know, you did, you did light up a little bit when I talked about the fear of losing momentum and the sunk cost piece of this. And so I’d love to hear because that definitely resonated with you. Um, what’s that bringing up for you?

Laura: Well, I just recently had, I, I have been working on this school group and I was really enjoying building it out. And it was, you know, incorporating a lot of things that I really enjoy, which is like yoga and internal family systems work and just like digging into the core of your authentic self, which is really the crux of yoga philosophy, which is one of the reasons I really love it. And so I was building it out in this slow way. And then I just, it creeped up on me, this sense of urgency and moving forward and forward and forward and, um, like the group got up to, you know, a decent number of people. But then I felt like that’s all I was doing was spending my time in the group. And then, and so I decided to just kind of like go on hiatus until I have a clearer image of what I want it to be and what’s going to make it enjoyable for me to show up there. And, um, you know, I did what I was just describing, which was push and push and push until I burned out and decided I never wanted to look at it again, which wasn’t really the case. But it’s funny, you know. This idea of sunk cost. I had hired one of my good friends who’s a designer, to create a brand around it. And I think part of the reason that I wanted to get it up and moving so fast is because he’s creating this really beautiful brand for me. And I’m like, I gotta use this. I gotta put this. And like, I’m paying him to do it because he deserves payment for his work. And then I’m just like, wow, did I just waste all that money? If I’m not going to have this, I have to keep going with it. And I finally came to this place where I was like, that’s going to get used because this is still, you know, I still want to practice yoga and teach people about yoga. I still want to, you know, do these exercises that help you uncover, you know, your soul self. Like, I’m not going to stop doing that. It might be, it might not be in the exact format that I have taken it thus far, but I’m still going to use that stuff. And even if I don’t, it’s not worth my, um, being completely burned out and miserable over. So yeah, when you said sunk cost, I was like, wow, that’s funny because that is just the conversation I was having with myself is like, you know, don’t, don’t fall into the sunk cost fallacy.

Renae: Well, I, and I appreciate your honesty in, in talking about that, that process, because that is what you’ve done is you’ve created a healthy boundary that says, I’m going to pause and I’m going to, um, acknowledge that none of this is none of this is wasted. It’s, it’s teaching me things. But if I don’t pause, if I keep rushing, I’m going to miss the lessons for me in this and I won’t be making wise decisions. Yeah. I’m going to be making I’m going to be reacting.

Laura: Yeah. I think another thing that’s interesting about it too, like if you are listening and you’re finding yourself in this in a similar situation, another thing that I was feeling really big too is, um, not necessarily admitting failure, but I, um, I’ve started a lot of stuff. I’ve tried a lot of things. I know myself well enough now to know that that is how I learn and that is how I, and I carry a lot of information from all of these projects into the next thing. Um, and to people that aren’t wired like me, it looks like, oh God, there’s Laura again, like trying a new thing, changing her mind. And I think that when I’m in an unhealthy place, it can be that. But I also know that that is a necessary process in my life. And so but Even even with that knowledge, I still feel like, oh God, what are people going to think? They’re going to say, oh, there’s Laura being flighty again. Um, and so I have, um, a, I have this, um, card that I painted on my desk that says no one needs to get it. Like no one needs to understand it but me as long as I feel okay about it. But what I’m the bigger point of what I’m saying is if you’re feeling like, oh God, what are people going to think? Like, yeah, people you’ll, you’ll have that. And, and I think that’s a normal, it’s a normal fear. And it shouldn’t keep you in a place where you’re burning out and feeling miserable and not able to take your hermit time.

Renae: Right. And I, and I think there’s a, um, a piece of it that is, um, sometimes we fall into the, it’s an either or that there’s like this all or nothing. And, and we’ve talked before about the messy middle of all of this, that there’s, there’s a, there’s a, um, a balance and a scale that says I get to participate as much as I can with in ways that are going to, um, keep me healthy. And so it, it may be that I have to adjust and not do as much. I just had this happen with the, um, with the summit, um, that we had planned and we had like twenty five people that were supposed to be speaking at it. And the closer we got to the deadlines, like people’s family members were dying and the people were having heart attacks and like, all of this stuff was happening. It was like really serious stuff. Plus there’s things going on in the world. And we it came down to it that Only. The only three of us could participate, and I. It was this this moment of of working through, you know, what is the how do I protect my energy? Because I know I can’t do the full thing anymore. It wouldn’t be honoring for me to try to, to create a whole same type of event. Um, and I still want to participate. The conversation still really important. The, what we, what we set out to do. And so what, what can I do that is sustainable? What can, what kind of container can I adjust to? And, and that type of, um, like sometimes maybe the retreats really just a pivot.

Laura: Mhm. Yeah. Interesting. Talk more about that.

Renae: Um, and the, it doesn’t have to be that I, uh, Disappear or that I, um, you know, in the, in the, in the solopreneur world, we talk a lot about, we just want to burn it all down and, and start over or never come back. Um, and I think that the, the idea of the, the, the retreat might be for the, um, retreating from that particular, um, role or retreating from that particular level of participation or retreating from, um.

Laura: From that method, that.

Renae: From that method.

Laura: Mhm, mhm. Yeah. I see what you’re saying. I really like that. Like the retreat can be more of like a transformative moment to say, okay, like this is a direction that I still want to drive in, but like, maybe I don’t want to make these stops that I’m making, right? Yeah.

Renae: Yeah. Well, and, and in thinking about it too, Like what happens when you’re, when you’re driving a car, um, and you hit a dead end, you back up, you back up and you go a different way. And that’s okay.

Laura: Yeah.

Renae: You know, we don’t, we don’t say, oh, well, you should just keep driving and go through all those buildings. We say, oh no, you’ve hit a dead end. In fact, you should back up and go a different way. And, and so maybe there’s some grace in that, right?

Laura: Yeah. Like it feels better to get all the way there without having to turn around. But sometimes you just have to turn around to get there. Like you just can’t just continue forward motion at that dead end stop.

Renae: And I think too, there’s a, there’s a piece of this that, um, when we’re talking about healthy boundaries that also the healthy connection. And so it’s, it’s looking at the relationships that Support our autonomy and support that we are able to negotiate our needs. Um, and we talked before about the, you know, the giving and the receiving of, of care. Um, and that, that our, our healthy connections allow for an ebb and flow. And so it’s leaning into those or, or developing them. And some of the, some of the retreat that we have might be in relationships that where we recognize, um, we, we are, we don’t have a healthy relationship with that entity, that person, that organization, that space. And so instead of us continuing to burn out to try to show up in, in, in that space and be protective of ourselves at the same time, um, we, we’re going to just create a boundary, meaning we’re not going to engage in the same way. Um, and then we, and then we strengthen the relationships that are safe.

Laura: Yeah. Yeah. It’s really interesting. I, I think that a lot of times we have relationships that we want to maintain and yet drain us quite a bit. And I think in those cases, that’s maybe where we can say, okay, we can have lunch once a week or, or, you know, I can talk to you for thirty minutes on Thursdays or whatever that might be, you know, putting a limit on that. And then I think the real challenge is like to not feel, not own the other people’s feelings whenever they feel bad that you can’t give them more. But I think it is for the health of everybody that you can set those boundaries in place.

Renae: Yeah. Well, and I it’s, um, I think it is the same as if you were creating, like I talked about, the buffer time in my decompression time, is that what to do that for yourself before and after those engagements? Like if you know that it’s going to be something where you’re like, I’m still, I’m committed to it for whatever reason. There’s no judgment here, um, about that. You know, I want to stay in this relationship. The way I can stay in this relationship is by making this container. So I’m communicating to them. This is what my container is. And for myself, I’m creating those buffers. And then part of it too, is if you put it on your calendar that you have this, this buffer time and you communicate, I have a thing right before and right after. This is what I have available.

Laura: Mhm.

Renae: You’re telling the truth.

Laura: Yeah.

Renae: Right. You know, it doesn’t need to stop.

Laura: Yeah.

Renae: It doesn’t need to be that you’re you’re telling a lie or you’re making excuses is like, this is the reality. This is what I have. Yeah. Um, and I’m, and I’m willing and happy to maybe not happy. I’m, I’m going to spend this time with you, um, choosing.

Laura: To. Yeah.

Renae: Um, and this is what I have available. And so I think as we, as we come toward the end of this, this conversation about integration, um, and just noticing where, you know, where do we feel these, these hard stops cropping up a emerging, um, as a reaction in our heart, in our body and our souls and noticing it in our relationships or our emotional regulation or, um, do we feel overwhelmed and unable to, to organize, um, our mind because that there’s too much going on or how are we feeling it in our body and, and noticing those patterns. And then as we’re creating this, um, you know, plan to go forward, it’s identifying how can I meet my needs holistically, um, in these spaces so that, that I don’t, it’s that it becomes, um, so robust in me and I can trust myself. So I don’t have a fear response that someone’s whatever is going to take that away from me.

Laura: Yeah, yeah. So when we think about like, you know, we’ve talked about like what happens in the shutdown space and we’ve talked about like starting to be really intentional about, you know, making the space. And then one of the things that we explore in the workbook series or the workbook companion is like starting to notice the signals, you know what I mean? Like before we can be intentional, like we need to start noticing like, when is this happening to me? Um, and so when you think about what is, what are the signs that are causing you to go into hermit mode? What are those for you?

Renae: Yeah, I definitely feel it first, um, in my body. So I, whether I, um, I can sometimes feel the cortisol go across my skull, like I will have a really, really deep response. And when I can feel that my, that wash over and my hair start to stand up because of that chemical response. Um, that’s an indication for me, um, that I’m having a physiological, so before my mind might notice it, before I might have a thought or name a feeling, my body is going to have a reaction to it when it’s, when it’s really feels unsafe. Um, so I’m going to notice it there. I’m also going to look at resistance patterns for for what am I avoiding? Um, and so if it’s, if it’s a, an email or a phone call or a project or a hard conversation, um, if I’m finding ways to not do that, then that’s also telling me that there’s, there’s something going on here, um, that I’m, I am my avoidance is a form of retreat.

Laura: Mhm. Mhm. Yeah. I definitely feel like when I, sometimes I do it to myself and sometimes other people do it like other people don’t do it to me. But you know what I mean? Like sometimes it’s in response to things I’m doing, like activities I’m doing. And sometimes it’s a response to other people. And I would say like, when I’m feeling those, when I’m getting those shutdown signals, it’s because I can tell that I am having trouble staying in the present moment, and I starting to get two future oriented and two, wishing that something I want to be happening is already happening. Um, and then that’s a, sometimes it’s not easy for me to listen to that signal, as evidenced in my earlier story, but that is a big, a big sign to me that that’s happening. And then also when I, um, when it’s other people, I start to have these mean thoughts like, I hate everyone. I don’t want to talk to anyone ever again. And I have really learned and that happens most often, I would say like in the evening or late afternoon and on. And I, um, I have gotten kind of good at being like, okay, you are shutting down and you just need to stop talking. Hey, stop talking and be this like, find some alone time, you know, like you don’t really hate everyone on the other part of me has to say, you still like people. It’s okay.

Renae: Yeah. Oh my gosh. And and I, the place that I really resonate with that is, um, um, as you know, I’m late diagnosis ADHD and, um, for forty five years of my life, not even kidding. I would wake up in the morning and pretty much the first thought that came to mind was, I hate everyone. And it’s a terrible way to wake up. It wasn’t like a choice. I would love to be able to wake up and, and not feel that way. And it was, it took, um, it actually did take for me, it took medication for my ADHD to give my brain enough stillness and rest so that I didn’t wake up overwhelmed. And it was literally, I was talking to my, my psychiatrist about it and I’m like, I don’t hate everybody when I wake up. And he’s like, right, Because you’re not completely overwhelmed all the time.

Laura: Yeah. Fascinating. Right?

Renae: Yeah. And I’m like, oh, like, it’s the world doesn’t feel I had no idea for forty five years, the world felt like a threat every single day because I was so overwhelmed. And so there would be this natural, not, not, um, default response of people in general are not safe because they’re going to take the energy away from me. And I’m already trying to, I’m using all my energy to mitigate even being in this world right now.

Laura: Yeah.

Renae: Right. So that’s like an extreme version of it. But the, the marked difference of, of saying like, oh, this is what it feels like to not be constantly overwhelmed. Wow.

Laura: Yeah. What a game changer. Right?

Renae: I completely different.

Renae: I love you all. I don’t hate anybody. I really don’t. I need. I don’t I don’t hate anybody at all. I don’t not, not a, not a single person. Whether I really disagree with you or not, whether I think that you’re not showing up as a human or not, I actually don’t hate anybody. Um, and so I think that that’s the.

Laura: Um, much to your surprise, huh.

Renae: Turns out. Oh, I’m not saying that. I’m not saying that people are safe. A lot of you still aren’t safe. Um.

Laura: But, you know, you are.

Renae: But but none of none of you are listening to this anyway, so.

Laura: Right.

Renae: And so, um, I think that that’s the, you know, like check after we’ve checked in with these, these patterns and we’ve looked at what, what’s protecting us and then started to think about, you know, how are we creating the containers for ourselves? Um, now that we know we’ve, we can catch ourselves a little bit lower, um, and a little bit sooner in the process. And what plans can we put in place for being kind to ourselves and then ultimately kind to other people? Because we’re not showing up with hate in our faces.

Laura: Right?

Laura: Right.

Laura: So.

Laura: So on that loving note.

Laura: If you want to.

Laura: Follow along on this micro journey, you can download that here. Wherever you’re listening to this podcast, it’s linked. And then you can also get the full workbook to go deep into the hermit and find all these things out for how this is showing up in you personally and your own unique energy and life and personality.

Renae: Awesome. Well, I just really enjoy this. I’ve enjoyed the series a lot. I’m enjoying all of them, but I’ve really enjoyed, I feel like this one in particular, you and I have laughed a little bit more about. And so that’s really interesting.

Laura: Yeah, we both have. I feel like we both have.

Laura: Some big hermit components.

Laura: Like it’s in the very best way, right?

Renae: Right. So yeah, I encourage you all to embrace your embrace your hermit. Um, and, uh, thank you so much for being on this journey with us. And thank you, Laura, for showing up and bringing your full, amazing self to this process.

Laura: You too.

Laura: You too. We’ll talk to you guys again soon.